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Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by Triumphrob
(Post 5319846)
Ive seen worse teeth here in GA than I ever did in England, oh well
Reg. Frank R. |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by elfman
(Post 5319856)
perhaps not directly, more by omission. Example: on the wall of my office I have a National Geographic map of Great Britain and Ireland. Down at the bottom of the map a section of Normandy is visible, and the National Geographic cartographers have labeled the D-Day beaches on it. Except they've only labeled the beaches where Americans landed (Utah and Omaha): the beaches assaulted by British and Canadian troops (Gold, Sword, Juno) are mysteriously absent. That's the kind of thing that fosters ignorance and winds British people up.
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Re: Help wanted WW2!
The sort of people who would make a comment like "Y'all'd be speakin German if it weren't for us" (or similar) are the same sort of folks who today would demand "I shouldn't be asked English or Spanish, this is American dammit!"
I had an argument with a guy about this a week or two ago. He was very upset that ATMs provide more than one language - if you're here you should speak English, period, was his philosophy. So, by that rationale, I argued - if you were to go overseas, you should never expect to find instructions in English (say in France, Germany, Japan, take your pick) ... is that right? Or ... an American bank would therefore have to forfeit the ability to do business with the thousands who were visiting (or not) this country who did not, or did not yet speak English. Couldn't get a straight answer out of him. He didn't seem to be able to connect his logic with mine, and that blew my mind. He also, ironically, didn't think there was anything wrong with the fact that his Mom (who was an American expat to Japan) never learned the language - fine, that's her choice - but it flies in the face of his logic - she should be unable to function there!!! I finally said - if you're so pissed off about it - stop complaining to me and write the bank. Pssst - you were an immigrant too once I'll bet! :rolleyes: Maybe this belongs under the "Stupid people I've met" thread in the Lounge. ;) |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
(Post 5318890)
In military terms, the US did what a successful military is supposed to do, in that it inflicted more damage than it took. In terms of body count, the US clearly won the war, with a kill ratio of perhaps 20-40:1, depending upon your sources, so when it came to spilling blood, the US certainly took the prize. Not trying to be flippant or anything, but that's a roundabout way of saying the US lost. You can't win a war 'on points' or 'body count'. |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by Rushman
(Post 5319358)
WHAT?? You mean that everyone with the name "Hitler" changed their name to "Rommel" and vice versa after the war? Well I never knew that.
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Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by Hiro11
(Post 5319320)
In my world, and I think this is probably true for most Americans, saying "if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking German" is such a ludicrous statement that it's become a cliche. The stupid, arrogant American saying that to British people is sort of like the villain in an old movie twisting his waxed mustache as he says "curses, foiled again!": it can't possibly be taken seriously.
Hell, Kevin Kline even made fun of the line (as the archetypal stupid, arrogant, baseball-hatted, childish American) in "A Fish Called Wanda" 20 years ago. I guess I could be wrong, but I highly doubt that the people saying this to the OP were serious. IMO, either they were: a. making a joke -or- b. so ridiculously stupid that they're not worth bothering with Either way, it's not worth taking it so seriously and trying to "teach them a history lesson". I agree that the OP's cow-workers probably meant it as a joke. And yet here we have ten plus pages on it, and how many of these posts are Brits laughing and telling the OP to get over it, as it was obviously meant to be funny? Christ, I think one of the things that bugs me is that it's sooooo old and tired. It's been 60 odd years, is that really all we can come up with? If I had to hear the same damn thing everytime some American coworker decided he felt comfortable enough around me to spring that little gem it wouldn't take long for my thoughts to turn violent. My wife feels the same way when some twat first thing upon learning her name, breaks into the chorus from "The First Noel". And every dumbass that does it think he/she was the first. |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
OK, we'll go back to this.
Originally Posted by Triumphrob
(Post 5319819)
So, why DO the Americans think they alone won the war? Is this taught to them at school or what?
Until the 1930's, Americans were generally isolationist in their political views. It began with Washington's advisory to avoid "foreign entanglements", and continued through the end of the 19th century, when Americans were too busy conquering native peoples and the Mexicans to worry about much beyond North America. WWI saw a momentary sea change in public sentiment in its support for WWI, so the rise of fascism so soon thereafter was a letdown. The attitude during the Great War had been that we'll go over there, help them sort things out, and peace will descend upon the world, but within less than twenty years, the whole thing had unraveled pretty badly. Americans in the late thirties were generally in no mood to jump into a war that they thought that the last one would prevent from ever happening again. To motivate Americans to go fight WWII, it was necessary to convince them that they must be saviors of the world to the downtrodden who can't survive without them. It was the belief that America could make a difference in the world and help its friends that convinced the average slob to buy war bonds, ration meat and send his kids into the grinder, even though they otherwise had no business there. And there you have it. If Americans don't think that they make the critical difference in a foreign conflict, they don't want to make the sacrifice. They participate in the belief that it's part of the democratic mission, not just because it's supposedly important. It's therefore important to convince them that the cause is noble AND that they are uniquely positioned to fix it in order to get them to participate. Ironically, it was the absence of a belief that your asses deserved saving that kept the US out of WWII as long as it did. FDR did not have enough popular will among the electorate to declare war on Germany as early as 1941, until Hitler stupidly fixed the problem for him. If Americans had maintained the mentality that some of you desire, they would have stayed home in the belief that you should have sorted out the Hitler problem for yourselves, without their help or their blood, for it wasn't otherwise their business. You might be careful what you wish for, next time... |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by Sally
(Post 5319979)
Not trying to be flippant or anything, but that's a roundabout way of saying the US lost. You can't win a war 'on points' or 'body count'.
I was pointing out, however, that the defeat was not because of military ineptitude, but due to political mismanagement. The nuances seem lost on some of our fellow posters here, and it was a point that was worth making, in my opinion. |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by another bloody yank
(Post 5319987)
Christ, I think one of the things that bugs me is that it's sooooo old and tired. It's been 60 odd years, is that really all we can come up with?
Regarding your wife's name ... that reminds me of a when a new employee joined my last company. His name was Andrew Lloyd. It took all of my self control not to make a Phantom of the Opera or similar reference - had to keep telling myself (spare the poor guy, guarantee he's heard it 1000 times!) :rofl: |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by KJ2007
(Post 5320002)
60 years? That's nothing - many Southerners aren't over the US Civil War yet. Damn Yankees! :eek:
Regarding your wife's name ... that reminds me of a when a new employee joined my last company. His name was Andrew Lloyd. It took all of my self control not to make a Phantom of the Opera or similar reference - had to keep telling myself (spare the poor guy, guarantee he's heard it 1000 times!) :rofl: |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
(Post 5319993)
OK, we'll go back to this.
Jokes aside, I don't think that you'll find that many people, particularly the urban hipsters on the coasts, who believe this sort of thing. But for those who do, here's a thought -- Until the 1930's, Americans were generally isolationist in their political views. It began with Washington's advisory to avoid "foreign entanglements", and continued through the end of the 19th century, when Americans were too busy conquering native peoples and the Mexicans to worry about much beyond North America. WWI saw a momentary sea change in public sentiment in its support for WWI, so the rise of fascism so soon thereafter was a letdown. The attitude during the Great War had been that we'll go over there, help them sort things out, and peace will descend upon the world, but within less than twenty years, the whole thing had unraveled pretty badly. Americans in the late thirties were generally in no mood to jump into a war that they thought that the last one would prevent from ever happening again. To motivate Americans to go fight WWII, it was necessary to convince them that they must be saviors of the world to the downtrodden who can't survive without them. It was the belief that America could make a difference in the world and help its friends that convinced the average slob to buy war bonds, ration meat and send his kids into the grinder, even though they otherwise had no business there. And there you have it. If Americans don't think that they make the critical difference in a foreign conflict, they don't want to make the sacrifice. They participate in the belief that it's part of the democratic mission, not just because it's supposedly important. It's therefore important to convince them that the cause is noble AND that they are uniquely positioned to fix it in order to get them to participate. Ironically, it was the absence of a belief that your asses deserved saving that kept the US out of WWII as long as it did. FDR did not have enough popular will among the electorate to declare war on Germany as early as 1941, until Hitler stupidly fixed the problem for him. If Americans had maintained the mentality that some of you desire, they would have stayed home in the belief that you should have sorted out the Hitler problem for yourselves, without their help or their blood, for it wasn't otherwise their business. You might be careful what you wish for, next time... |
Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by Cape Blue
(Post 5320022)
was it not being attacked on American soil by Japan that motivated the US to join the war?
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Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by Cape Blue
(Post 5320022)
was it not being attacked on American soil by Japan that motivated the US to join the war?
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Re: Help wanted WW2!
Originally Posted by Cape Blue
(Post 5320022)
was it not being attacked on American soil by Japan that motivated the US to join the war?
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Re: Help wanted WW2!
Now we're over here nicking your jobs so we mustn't grumble :)
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