If these people used their brains more and spent less time grovelling on their knees to an invisible man in the sky, the results might be a little different....

Guess that's me firmly off the fence, then....

I was...we were taught it in science classes...we also had RE classes to tell us what the various religions were about and what they thought about evolution etc.

first of all let me start by saying the most of us as a human race are brainwashed at an early age........just think about it and all the religions......muslim,catholic,protestant and the rest......if we are not braiwashed then why are at least 90% of white British people either catholic or protestant?........why are VERY few white British people muslim???.......why are VERY few Asians catholic or protestant???.....

we as children are taught mostly by our parents what to belive......who is to say that they are right?....think about this WHAT human on this planet can say that any religion is right or wrong?.....I guess just beliving in something is the key and I will never forget that Irish comedian I think his name was Dave something who used to say at the end of his show....

"may your god go with you"

he was right.....your god my god no god I belive it's all the same......ask yourself this question......."did I decide my own religion"........I fear not many can answer yes

Unfortunately huge religious schisms exist so I can't agree that it's "all the same" - also, if religious groups are dictating what is taughtin schools purely for dogmatic reasons then I don't think we should just shrug our shoulders.

Agree Dave Allen was dead funny though

I can see your point. I think "God" is basically your individual conscience, an installed programme to treat as you wish to be treated. That is my interpretation of "God". Therefore "Satan" would be that feeling when you just want to be a selfish bastard and don't care about the consequences.

How did the "programme" get installed?

Agree Dave Allen was dead funny though[/QUOTE]

Little joke there.........

spot on - people slate these so called cults that occasionaly pop up - but isnt that just what other religous groups are?? - just less dedicated cults!!

Anthony

religon is just for people who are not strong enough minded to just accept the fact that we are here, and need to make up imaginary friends (God namely!!) to help justify their existance - just my 2 cents!!

Anthony

By our parents teaching us to be nice and kind to each other. Which should hopefully give a conscience as a side effect.

Really?

Have you heard about how viruses evolve to become resilient to antibiotics?

Two points
You cant treat a virus with anti biotic.
This wouldn't affect your average doctor as they don't actually find a 'cure' and I was speaking of human evolution.

I'm not saying I don't believe in either evolution or God I personally don't know what to believe I am a believer in God but have the evidence of evolution so I'm stuck between my faith and my intelligence.

Replace viruses with bacteria and that's what I was getting at.

^

I think the point of people who "don't believe in evolution" like myself is simply a matter of symantecs. Arguing over apples and oranges never gets us anywhere, so let me just say I don't know of ANYONE who does not believe in microevolution. It is scientific and TESTABLE. There is a big difference between naturally selecting what information is already there or via a point mutation in bacterial R-conjugation (which is how bacteria can become resistant) and leaping from that scientific fact all the way to the imagination that you literally came from a rock, and that rock literally came from nothing. The evolution you speak of is testable and does not create a new species, simply a current species that is resistant to a current environmental insult. This is natural selection which is completely testable and scientific. In order to get it to change, you have to have the insult, and the bacteria in absence of the insult is actually WORSE off and doesn't live as long. Read also sickle cell disease and the resistance in Africans to Plasmodium vivax. The individual is now resistant to malaria, but in the absence of malaria or otherwise lives only to be 40 years old, and has a lot of problems with morbidity in life. The mutation has resulted in a human that has evolved to a.... human, and one who is WORSE off than before in absence of the environmental insult.

That is a far cry from what some propose, that there is no intelligence above ourselves and that we have no conscious origin. This is called pure Darwinism or Macroevolution. I know of no scientist that doesn't believe in Microevolution, but I know quite a few that realize that Macroevolution is totally non-scientific, and may in fact not even be true as evidence for the Cambrian "explosion of life" mounts. Macroevolution (you and I came from a rock, and that rock came from nothing at all) is a leap of FAITH and is totally non-scientific no matter how you want to argue it. It is not testable and if you REALLY read up on it, the evidence is sorely lacking. There are a couple fossil icons of evolution such as Lucy and a couple jawbones, but even the lead curator of the British Museum admits that there are no real transitional fossil forms and has been quoted on it. I am not going to say that Macroevolution is not logical. It totally is. You can IMAGINE it happening logically based on what we know of Microevolution, which is testable. There is a big difference between a logical conclusion and a truthful conclusion, however, and a distinction should be made as for some people the logic that follows from Microevolution leads one to believe Macroevolution has already been proven, which is hasn't. You will be hard pressed to find anyone who will tell you that Macroevolution has been proven, whether they believe in it or not.

Re: Intelligent Design... The information is out there--there is a very large intelligent design movement among scientists and it is growing as we learn more about the complexities of life. This isn't a movement of radical Christians who want you to come to church with them.... these are people who have dedicated their life to scientific research and finding out the truth to our origins, as the debate itself is far from over and there is no reason to believe we have solved this puzzle yet, unless you are so stubborn that your mind is made up based on what you have been taught. http://www.origins.org is a good place to start and has some good debates on the subject, and is lead by a renown professor from Berkeley.

In other words, with Google and the Internet, there is no excuse to be ignorant about intelligent design theories or at the very least the evidence against macroevolution, which you will find there is plenty of. The information and journals are a click away. The only reason certain people don't know much about this, however, is that they either 1) Weren't taught it (i.e., most of us)., or 2) Anything involving intelligence in the design of our bodies is demonized by certain people who simply want to cover their ears because they think it is religious, and they hate religion. Curiousity got the best of me though, and that curious nature has made me, I feel, a fantastic physician and researcher. From the beginning of my medical career I can't think of a single instance where having to believe in macroevolution and origins science is ever relevant in medical science. It certainly isn't taught or integrated into the medical science curriculum they teach at medical schools.

It is not to say that there is direct evidence for "God" but that with the realities we are faced with, when you research what exactly we and this universe are made of, and you learn more about it, you are at least faced with the conclusion that it is totally reasonable to believe that there was intelligence involved in how and why we are here. I am not hear to argue for ID, just to give some information on it because it is currently where I am leaning as I get older and learn more. I have not concluded that Macroevolution is completely false, just that it is as just as non-scientific as ID. The more you read, the more you at least come to the conclusion that those who believe intelligence was involved (whether you call it "God" or aliens, or whatever) are not crazy and merely just ignorant and "stupid," that is such a cop out for those who simply don't feel there can be any debate. Some of the smartest and most informed colleagues that I know are ID proponents. Just the mere fact that our bodies contain vast amounts of design information, which in EVERY aspect of our life is a hallmark of intelligence, at least points us away from the view that our lives have no conscious origin. Then you absolutely must conclude that the universe is either conscious and always has been, or it never was and spontaneously become conscious of itself through us, a product of it. That is what you believe if you are a pure Darwinist.

None of these debates is important to moving medical science forward BTW, it is just fun discussion, though most people's minds seem made up on this forum. If you are interested there is a lot of information out there... like I've said, this is a good place to start if you are open minded enough to hear and be part of the debate:

http://www.origins.org/menus/evolution.html
http://www.origins.org/menus/debates.html

Religious Education - we actually had a class debate about bible vs darwin