Where is the anger?

Old Sep 13th 2021, 4:57 pm
  #91  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
People are still dying, and people moving from one place to another are contributing to that. As I said earlier in the thread, I am in favor of a total suspension if all international travel for everyone (other than essential person) until such time as the Delta variant burns itself out and there have been no new variants of concern for 60 days.

I don't believe it should apply to non-residents/USCs only, I just don't think you have the political standing as a guest of this country to complain about it.
So you are in favour of banning all international travel forever then?
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Well the latest is the Mu variant.
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 5:00 pm
  #93  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by johnbrown1938 View Post
So you are in favour of banning all international travel forever then?
I believe I already stated my criteria.
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 5:01 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Because Biden says so. Nobody on here has any control of US politics.
Actually, I disagree. I believe residents of the US have political influence en masse, regardless of citizenship status.

I see two prevailing attitudes here:
  1. Empathy over the situation, but "what can you do?"
  2. Ban makes sense / doesn't go far enough, but I'm a USC/GC (sometimes a little bit of https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052911/)
If you fall into category 1. can I please ask for your support? https://www.stopthetravelban.com/how-you-can-help
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 5:10 pm
  #95  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
I believe I already stated my criteria.
But your criteria is forever though. There will always be a new variant of concern?
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 5:13 pm
  #96  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Well the latest is the Mu variant.
That is not taking off though? At least not in UK or US. UK has seen maybe 70 cases since May among what a million at least?
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 5:15 pm
  #97  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by johnbrown1938 View Post
But your criteria is forever though. There will always be a new variant of concern?
I don't agree with the premise of your statement. It certainly does not apply to Influenza, which is what COVID is assuming the endemic nature of.

That is not taking off though? At least not in UK or US. UK has seen maybe 70 cases since May among what a million at least?
And here you are making my point for me. Isolating VOC allows them to burn out without further spread.
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 5:20 pm
  #98  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
I don't agree with the premise of your statement. It certainly does not apply to Influenza, which is what COVID is assuming the endemic nature of.



And here you are making my point for me. Isolating VOC allows them to burn out without further spread.
There is not the collective will in the world unfortunately to let variants burn out as you say.
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 5:22 pm
  #99  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by johnbrown1938 View Post
There is not the collective will in the world unfortunately to let variants burn out as you say.
I don't disagree, however that is my position with respect to travel bans.
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 7:05 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

I wanted to go to Canada early this year, to pick up some equipment but couldn't as Canadian government was not allowing non-essential travel. I was thinking of going over to England around late March or April as I was fully vaccinated in early March, but lockdown rules and quarantine was in effect so didn't go.

Right now, the US State Dept is stating
Do not travel to the United Kingdom due to COVID-19.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...-advisory.html
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 7:28 pm
  #101  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Boomhauer View Post
I wanted to go to Canada early this year, to pick up some equipment but couldn't as Canadian government was not allowing non-essential travel. I was thinking of going over to England around late March or April as I was fully vaccinated in early March, but lockdown rules and quarantine was in effect so didn't go.

Right now, the US State Dept is stating
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...-advisory.html
You can come to Canada now if you are fully vaxxed.
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 9:08 pm
  #102  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by droidguy72 View Post
Actually, I disagree. I believe residents of the US have political influence en masse, regardless of citizenship status.
I'm not sure I'd necessarily agree with that.

You certainly have the right to an opinion, but that's not the same thing as having a say in things.

That doesn't mean that you don't have rights of course, and the Supreme Court has often distinguished between those rights that are accorded to US Citizens only and those that are enjoyed by "the people" in general, but the right to political influence is not generally considered to be amongst the latter.

There is, after all, a reason why Federal Law restricts certain political activities and financial contributions to US Citizens and Permanent Residents only.
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Old Sep 13th 2021, 10:14 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
You can come to Canada now if you are fully vaxxed.
And now that Canada is permitted travel its also a route into the US but their is a catch, you need to spend 15 days in Canada before you can travel onward via air to the US, but I know of a couple brits who have done this but via Mexico, UK to Mexico, 15 days in Mexico, onward to the US.

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Old Sep 13th 2021, 10:53 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by TexanScot View Post
...when researchers initially stated that there was "no evidence" that vaccines reduce the likelihood of contracting the virus then this absence of evidence was wrongly construed as evidence of absence, which is not the same thing at all.

We know now that the vaccines are pretty damn good at preventing you from contracting the virus in the first place, but a lack of scientific savvy amongst the media and the general public has allowed the myth to take hold that the vaccines are no use for this whatsoever.
I'm quite surprised to read that.

Every time I have heard or seen any reference to the vaccines not stopping people from getting the virus the context has always been "while the vaccines provide protection against illness or hospitalisation, just because you've been vaccinated doesn't mean you can't get the virus and pass it on (unknowingly) to someone else."

It's always been put across as not getting carried away, there are still unvaccinated people waiting for their turn, still important to play your part in not transmitting the virus to other people more at risk and so on.

I can understand that the deniers, conspiracy theorists and other assorted whackos might wish to focus on one part taken completely out of context but reading UK and Canadian media it's been very much "keep up the good work".

Is your observation relating to US general media or more about social media?
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 12:03 am
  #105  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by TexanScot View Post
It's not quite that low, but I believe the vaccines reduce your risk of contracting the virus itself by around half, which is still nothing to be laughed at when you consider that if you DO contract it, the vaccine will likely stop you become seriously ill or being admitted to hospital.

Unfortunately the general public don't really understand the subtleties of science, and when researchers initially stated that there was "no evidence" that vaccines reduce the likelihood of contracting the virus then this absence of evidence was wrongly construed as evidence of absence, which is not the same thing at all.

We know now that the vaccines are pretty damn good at preventing you from contracting the virus in the first place, but a lack of scientific savvy amongst the media and the general public has allowed the myth to take hold that the vaccines are no use for this whatsoever.

Not everyone has or is interested in obtaining a scientific education, but the complicity from certain parts of the media in this has been truly shocking to behold.
thats really not true. look at Israel, a leader in vaccination per capita and HUGE covid spike despite that. Vaccine may well help restrict symptoms to the individual but does zero regarding transmission or herd immunity
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