NHS

Old Feb 12th 2013, 2:29 am
  #91  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
Is it right that having wisely spent taxpayers money eradicating diseases in this country the NHS now has to pay for the care of immigrants arriving with the same diseases?
I work in a major London hospital a couple of months a year and its usual for around one tenth of the in-patient population to have TB, for example.
We also spent a lot treating malaria, Hep B and C, and a whole range of tropical diseases that have been effectively 'imported' by immigrants. I have seen whole wards occupied by immigrants with TB, straight from the airport. Presumably patients waiting to be admitted for other treatments have to wait?



I also understand that the hospital spends more on interpreters than on patient meals. Would a Brit get free healthcare and a free interpreter if they traveled say to Somalia, Poland or India, where the majority of these folk have come from? If there is no reciprocal arrangement in place, why not?

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/gps-forc...e#.URmznKNdzzk

I have worked in the NHS since 1986, but now believe it to be unsustainable. The number of folk paying NI are seriously outnumbered by the folk using the NHS. Its that simple.
It has ALWAYS been the case that the number of people paying NI are outnumbered by thoe number of people using the NHS. I suspect you wanted to make a different point, but related...?
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 2:34 am
  #92  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Logic says it is going to be pretty substantial, I seem to remember someone on this board who wanted to pay, but could find no way of being charged. So what chance is there?
So no evidence that its anything like 10% or more of the NHS budget. No surprise there.

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
I have worked in the NHS since 1986, but now believe it to be unsustainable. The number of folk paying NI are seriously outnumbered by the folk using the NHS. Its that simple.
The NHS is funded out of general taxation. Almost every adult in the country will be contributing in some way, even if it's through VAT on purchases. Unless over 50 million "health tourists" are using the NHS every year, your assertion is bizarre.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 2:35 am
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by HarryTheSpider View Post
It has ALWAYS been the case that the number of people paying NI are outnumbered by thoe number of people using the NHS. I suspect you wanted to make a different point, but related...?
Actually I doubt that, but NI just goes into the general fund so not relevant anyway.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 2:37 am
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
So no evidence that its anything like 10% or more of the NHS budget. No surprise there.
What would your assumption be, or do you have a substantiated link you would care to share.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 4:34 am
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
What would your assumption be, or do you have a substantiated link you would care to share.
Unlike you, I make no assumptions as to what it is. But given you chose to make the assertion that it's more than 10% of NHS's budget, I was wondering whether you had anything to back that up. It seems you don't.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 4:38 am
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Default Re: NHS

So by analogy if the US does not keep records of how many died in drone strikes, then it is not a relevant factor in any discussion?
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 4:44 am
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
So by analogy if the US does not keep records of how many died in drone strikes, then it is not a relevant factor in any discussion?
You think the US government is the only source of casualty estimates

You couldn't even produce any source to back up your "more than 10% of the NHS budget", let along a UK government one. I'm still all ears on this. What do you have to back up your assertion that medical tourism is costing the NHS more than £10bn a year?
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:22 am
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Default Re: NHS

Did you read any of the other posts in this thread?

So I have to produce actual numbers which are not deliberately kept whist for Drone deaths estimates are fine.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:28 am
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Did you read any of the other posts in this thread?
So still nothing to back the assertion that NHS tourism costs it more than 10% of its budget. Ho hum.

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
So I have to produce actual numbers which are not deliberately kept whist for Drone deaths estimates are fine.
Care to back up the assertion that numbers - or even estimates etc - are deliberately not kept?

Last edited by Giantaxe; Feb 12th 2013 at 5:32 am.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 1:00 pm
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Actually I doubt that, but NI just goes into the general fund so not relevant anyway.
Really? I'm not sure if you actually read the words rather than skim-read and came away with what you THOUGHT you read - not a criticism, as this is something almost all of us do frequently - connected to 'read the question' syndrome at school when taking exams...

Here's my rationale...

The NUMBER of Infants, nursing mothers, pregnant women, kids generally, plus retired plus those not able to work due to disability, plus prisoners, plus the unemployed who are ill and then those in the general working population who are ill...

vs

The working population overall.

I suggest the first is a bigger group, but am open now to the possibility it might not ALWAYS be the case...

But I agree it's moot given NI payments go in to the General Fund.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 1:02 pm
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Not the sort of information that is likely to be released, just think of the political consequences.

Logic says it is going to be pretty substantial, I seem to remember someone on this board who wanted to pay, but could find no way of being charged. So what chance is there?
Logic is on sandy soil here.

BUT if people who want to pay can't find the mechanism to do this, then that lends credence to Boiler's theory.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by HarryTheSpider View Post
Really? I'm not sure if you actually read the words rather than skim-read and came away with what you THOUGHT you read - not a criticism, as this is something almost all of us do frequently - connected to 'read the question' syndrome at school when taking exams...

Here's my rationale...

The NUMBER of Infants, nursing mothers, pregnant women, kids generally, plus retired plus those not able to work due to disability, plus prisoners, plus the unemployed who are ill and then those in the general working population who are ill...

vs

The working population overall.

I suggest the first is a bigger group, but am open now to the possibility it might not ALWAYS be the case...

But I agree it's moot given NI payments go in to the General Fund.
My response was to never, I was thinking that back shortly after it was set up the numbers in percentage terms of retired and unemployed was much lower.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 4:07 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
So no evidence that its anything like 10% or more of the NHS budget. No surprise there.



The NHS is funded out of general taxation. Almost every adult in the country will be contributing in some way, even if it's through VAT on purchases. Unless over 50 million "health tourists" are using the NHS every year, your assertion is bizarre.
Whether you have seen it recently or not, the NHS is slowly imploding.
After a decade of reducing A&E waits to 4 hours, its now back up to 12 hours plus, with frail elderly patients stuck in A&Es overnight because there are no beds for them to go to.
Ambulances get stuck in queues waiting to offload patients. The worst queue I have personally seen was 23 ambulances, but most days it sits at around 8 at any one time. That is 8 ambulances unable to respond to other emergencies because they are babysitting patients waiting to get through the hospital doors.

90% of patients are from overseas. Do you feel there is a link between this and the huge numbers of patients attending that are causing the NHS to buckle?

I don't believe its only a London problem, its my understanding the NHS is struggling the most in Lincolnshire.

Do you have a different experience of the NHS, and if so, where?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/healt...s-8422177.html
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 4:17 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
Whether you have seen it recently or not, the NHS is slowly imploding.
After a decade of reducing A&E waits to 4 hours, its now back up to 12 hours plus, with frail elderly patients stuck in A&Es overnight because there are no beds for them to go to.
Ambulances get stuck in queues waiting to offload patients. The worst queue I have personally seen was 23 ambulances, but most days it sits at around 8 at any one time. That is 8 ambulances unable to respond to other emergencies because they are babysitting patients waiting to get through the hospital doors.

90% of patients are from overseas. Do you feel there is a link between this and the huge numbers of patients attending that are causing the NHS to buckle?

I don't believe its only a London problem, its my understanding the NHS is struggling the most in Lincolnshire.

Do you have a different experience of the NHS, and if so, where?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/healt...s-8422177.html
"90% of patients are from overseas". What are you basing this on? And what is your definition of "from overseas"? Are you including legal immigrants in this total?

Last edited by Giantaxe; Feb 12th 2013 at 4:25 pm.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 4:19 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
"90 of patients are from overseas". What are you basing this on? And what is your definition of "from overseas"? Are you including legal immigrants in this total?
Exactly, what sort of documentation do they provide to show that they are not health tourists?

How is this recorded?
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