NHS

Old Feb 12th 2013, 4:24 pm
  #106  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Exactly, what sort of documentation do they provide to show that they are not health tourists?

How is this recorded?
Most users of NHS services will have an NHS number. Some will not, especially those that are - legally - treated free of charge for emergencies in NHS hospitals. Some of those with NHS numbers will likely be "health tourists".
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 4:58 pm
  #107  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Most users of NHS services will have an NHS number. Some will not, especially those that are - legally - treated free of charge for emergencies in NHS hospitals. Some of those with NHS numbers will likely be "health tourists".
NHS numbers are rarely seen in reality anymore. By definition they should be supplied when a patient is registered, but as nobody has them, reception staff have given up asking for them.
If you really want one,you can buy them online, I think the going rate is around £130.

Statistics I quote are from hospital data, which I have access to as a employee, but is not public domain. For the purposes of analysis, they define 'overseas' as not having been born in the UK. Currently that stands at 90% of patients. The number requesting interpreters is about the same. If I call Language line say 25 times a day, at £100 a pop, it soon adds up. That is one nurse, in one hospital, in one city.

I see that nobody responded to my earlier question regarding reciprocal arrangements. Would healthcare and interpretation services be free to me if I moved to Poland, Somalia or India?
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:04 pm
  #108  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
Statistics I quote are from hospital data, which I have access to as a employee, but is not public domain. For the purposes of analysis, they define 'overseas' as not having been born in the UK. Currently that stands at 90% of patients. The number requesting interpreters is about the same. If I call Language line say 25 times a day, at £100 a pop, it soon adds up. That is one nurse, in one hospital, in one city.
So you're now claiming that 90% of NHS patients request an interpreter? Absent corroboration, I just don't believe your numbers. And what proportion of those purported 90% not born in the UK are citizens or legal residents?

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
I see that nobody responded to my earlier question regarding reciprocal arrangements. Would healthcare and interpretation services be free to me if I moved to Poland, Somalia or India?
Poland is in the EU so presumably there are some kinds of reciprocal arrangements. I got free treatment in India, but that was a long time ago and I don't know how legal it was.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Feb 12th 2013 at 5:08 pm.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:05 pm
  #109  
 
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
For the purposes of analysis, they define 'overseas' as not having been born in the UK. Currently that stands at 90% of patients.

Hang on here a second - are you saying that in a country of 60odd million, where the 2008 count by the National Office of Statistics showed that 11% of the population is foreign-born, that 90% of those who use the NHS are foreign born?

I'm no statistician but that can't be right.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:09 pm
  #110  
 
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
I see that nobody responded to my earlier question regarding reciprocal arrangements. Would healthcare and interpretation services be free to me if I moved to Poland, Somalia or India?

When did we decide that our standards of social services and health care should be based upon what countries in a state of desperate poverty offer?
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:13 pm
  #111  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Hang on here a second - are you saying that in a country of 60odd million, where the 2008 count by the National Office of Statistics showed that 11% of the population is foreign-born, that 90% of those who use the NHS are foreign born?

I'm no statistician but that can't be right.
Perhaps next time you are in the UK you can spend a day with me working in A&E? Those numbers are spot on. NHS usage has always been disproportionate to the population in general.
As i said in a earlier post, i just spent a few weeks working back in the UK. I see anything upwards of 40 patients a day, but the number of born-in-the-UK patients I saw in those few weeks I could count on my fingers.
When you next in the UK, go and sit for a couple of hours in the A&E waiting room of your local DGH, and then let me know : )
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:14 pm
  #112  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
When did we decide that our standards of social services and health care should be based upon what countries in a state of desperate poverty offer?
My question was whether those countries whose citizens use the NHS offer reciprocal arrangements for UK citizens?
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:15 pm
  #113  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Hang on here a second - are you saying that in a country of 60odd million, where the 2008 count by the National Office of Statistics showed that 11% of the population is foreign-born, that 90% of those who use the NHS are foreign born?

I'm no statistician but that can't be right.
Personally, I'm quite impressed that the UK is able to provide services to 500 million immigrants.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:16 pm
  #114  
 
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
Perhaps next time you are in the UK you can spend a day with me working in A&E? Those numbers are spot on. NHS usage has always been disproportionate to the population in general.
As i said in a earlier post, i just spent a few weeks working back in the UK. I see anything upwards of 40 patients a day, but the number of born-in-the-UK patients I saw in those few weeks I could count on my fingers.
When you next in the UK, go and sit for a couple of hours in the A&E waiting room of your local DGH, and then let me know : )
I am simply asking for some actual corroboration that 90% of NHS users are foreign-born, when some 11% of the UK population is foreign born.

Data is not a matter of counting on one's fingers, or guessing from impressions or people's appearance.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:17 pm
  #115  
 
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
My question was whether those countries whose citizens use the NHS offer reciprocal arrangements for UK citizens?
And why is this relevant?
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:18 pm
  #116  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by Middlemore View Post
Perhaps next time you are in the UK you can spend a day with me working in A&E? Those numbers are spot on. NHS usage has always been disproportionate to the population in general.
As i said in a earlier post, i just spent a few weeks working back in the UK. I see anything upwards of 40 patients a day, but the number of born-in-the-UK patients I saw in those few weeks I could count on my fingers.
When you next in the UK, go and sit for a couple of hours in the A&E waiting room of your local DGH, and then let me know : )
Firstly, the NHS consists of more than A&E. Most patient visits are to a GP or a specialist. Secondly, were you personally responsible for checking etc
the birthplace of every patient?
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:18 pm
  #117  
 
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP View Post
Personally, I'm quite impressed that the UK is able to provide services to 500 million immigrants.

Yes, not bad at all.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:18 pm
  #118  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP View Post
Personally, I'm quite impressed that the UK is able to provide services to 500 million immigrants.

I don't know where the 500 million came from.
All I know is what I see, 90% of patients are from abroad.
You are welcome to come visit next time you are in the UK.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:19 pm
  #119  
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Default Re: NHS

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP View Post
Personally, I'm quite impressed that the UK is able to provide services to 500 million immigrants.
Middlemore's claim would need foreign born patients to use NHS services at a rate 90 times higher than UK-born. it's simply not credible.
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Old Feb 12th 2013, 5:20 pm
  #120  
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Default Re: NHS

[QUOTE=Giantaxe;10540416]Firstly, the NHS consists of more than A&E. Most patient visits are to a GP or a specialist. Secondly, were you personally responsible for checking etc
the birthplace of every patient?[/QUOTE

Not me personally, the reception staff collect data.
Please come visit, i get the impression folk on here have doubts about their beloved NHS and the state it is in.
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