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Let's talk about cars

Let's talk about cars

Old Jul 8th 2013, 10:22 am
  #106  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

The Roadster had some reported claims of "bricking." Tesla essentially acknowledged that it occurred, although it talked around the problem and supposedly fought against those who made the claims. One example:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/22/t...esla-responds/
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Old Jul 8th 2013, 10:23 am
  #107  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Brit3964
"An additional warranty covers the battery and varies by capacity. The 60 kWh battery is covered for 8 years or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first. The largest battery, 85 kWh, is covered for eight years and unlimited miles."

Mine is the 85Kw so I'm covered for 8 years/unlimited mileage. It's the mileage that's unlimited not the age. They also say there will be a pre-paid replacement battery warranty coming however I'd imagine in 8yrs time, the price might well be lower anyway.



"The Model S battery will not lose a significant amount of charge when parked for long periods of time. For example, Model S owners can park at the airport without plugging in."

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts
OK, we get it. You're very pleased with your purchase. However, some of us view it as an over developed golf cart. Now, please can we get back to talking about proper cars?
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Old Jul 8th 2013, 12:56 pm
  #108  
 
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
OK, we get it. You're very pleased with your purchase. However, some of us view it as an over developed golf cart. Now, please can we get back to talking about proper cars?
Sorry but I had to laugh thats exactly what my neighbor called it because I live at the moment on a golf course..he said he will do Brit3964 a deal
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Old Jul 8th 2013, 1:14 pm
  #109  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
However, some of us view it as an over developed golf cart.
The Model S is getting stellar reviews from the enthusiast press. That golf cart can blow away most of the cars on the road today. That is, at least when it's charged up.
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Old Jul 8th 2013, 1:47 pm
  #110  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Poppy girl
Sorry but I had to laugh thats exactly what my neighbor called it because I live at the moment on a golf course..he said he will do Brit3964 a deal
Have you bought the MGBGT yet?!
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Old Jul 8th 2013, 2:33 pm
  #111  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
OK, we get it. You're very pleased with your purchase. However, some of us view it as an over developed golf cart. Now, please can we get back to talking about proper cars?
It's the only "overdeveloped golf cart" that got a Consumer Reports rating of 99 out of 100. It's the only car that's ever got that rating in the history of CR.

Since you seem so sure that it's not viable, next time you are down in South Florida, let me know. I'll be quite happy to show you around it and even let you test drive it. That offer stands for any of the other naysayers on here too. My guess is you won't view an electric car in quite the same way again afterwards.
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Old Jul 8th 2013, 2:44 pm
  #112  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Brit3964
My guess is you won't view an electric car in quite the same way again afterwards.
I've driven electric cars (although not the Tesla), as well as hydrogen fuel cell EVs.

Electric cars are fine. They've been fine for over 100 years.

But battery powered cars are a problem. Batteries are costly, bulky, and heavy with low energy density, and consequently have limited range. They also have long recharge times, which can't be fixed by a supercharger.

Tesla hasn't fixed the fundamental problems of batteries that have existed since the 19th century. Nobody has. (Fuel cells haven't fixed it, either, even though the cars themselves drive just fine.)

There's a reason why it takes a couple of hours to charge even something as simple as a mobile phone, and it isn't because everyone in the phone business is an idiot.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 8:14 am
  #113  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
But battery powered cars are a problem. Batteries are costly, bulky, and heavy with low energy density, and consequently have limited range. They also have long recharge times, which can't be fixed by a supercharger.
The first part of your statement is true but I'm sorry, I can't let the second part go. If you think 45 minutes to do a 90% charge, which Li-ion batteries prefer, on an 85Kw battery is a "long recharge time" then look at what it'll take to charge a Nissan Leaf 24Kw battery; 4hrs and that's with their new 6.6Kw "fast charge" system. Maximum range is 129 miles, normal range 75 miles. Compare that to a Model S. Even the 60Kw version official EPA figure is 208 miles. Fact is Tesla are the first company who have been able to produce a commercially viable fast charge electric car whichever way you look at it.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 8:35 am
  #114  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Brit3964
The first part of your statement is true but I'm sorry, I can't let the second part go. If you think 45 minutes to do a 90% charge, which Li-ion batteries prefer, on an 85Kw battery is a "long recharge time" then look at what it'll take to charge a Nissan Leaf 24Kw battery; 4hrs and that's with their new 6.6Kw "fast charge" system. Maximum range is 129 miles, normal range 75 miles. Compare that to a Model S. Even the 60Kw version official EPA figure is 208 miles. Fact is Tesla are the first company who have been able to produce a commercially viable fast charge electric car whichever way you look at it.
Gasoline and diesel powered cars set the benchmark for acceptable range and recharge times.

By that standard, electrics absolutely fall short. You can pretend that it doesn't matter. But given the demands of the marketplace, it matters, which explains why EVs have so little acceptance with consumers. Even with high subsidies, not many people want them.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 9:06 am
  #115  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Brit3964
It's the only "overdeveloped golf cart" that got a Consumer Reports rating of 99 out of 100. It's the only car that's ever got that rating in the history of CR.

Since you seem so sure that it's not viable, next time you are down in South Florida, let me know. I'll be quite happy to show you around it and even let you test drive it. That offer stands for any of the other naysayers on here too. My guess is you won't view an electric car in quite the same way again afterwards.
I'm not a naysayer, I quite like the idea of the electric cars (though I still think hydrogen is the future, sorry ... ) but can I have a go anyway?

You'll have to drive it up here first, though.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 10:21 am
  #116  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
OK, we get it. You're very pleased with your purchase. However, some of us view it as an over developed golf cart. Now, please can we get back to talking about proper cars?
Yes, a sedan that generates 100% of torque which allows 911-style 0-60 times, that has the lowest center of gravity of any competing car which that allows it to corner like a sports car, that seats seven, whose engine has one moving part, who is perfectly silent at highway speeds and looks like a Tesla S is indeed an "over developed golf cart".

In my opinion, it's not only the first truly viable electric car, it's also one of the best cars of any type available today.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 10:28 am
  #117  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
Gasoline and diesel powered cars set the benchmark for acceptable range and recharge times.

By that standard, electrics absolutely fall short. You can pretend that it doesn't matter. But given the demands of the marketplace, it matters, which explains why EVs have so little acceptance with consumers. Even with high subsidies, not many people want them.
This is a canard. How often does anyone need a car that goes further than 265 miles in one day? Once a year, once every couple of years? For the vast majority of people, the vast majority of miles are to the office and back every day. The Tesla Model S is ideal for that purpose, especially since lots of offices already offer free electric car charging ports (mine does). Rent a Corolla if you absolutely must drive to Florida once every couple of years.

Also, Tesla is setting up charging stations across the country that give another 150 miles of range in half an hour... for free.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 11:09 am
  #118  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Hiro11
This is a canard. How often does anyone need a car that goes further than 265 miles in one day? Once a year, once every couple of years? For the vast majority of people, the vast majority of miles are to the office and back every day. The Tesla Model S is ideal for that purpose, especially since lots of offices already offer free electric car charging ports (mine does). Rent a Corolla if you absolutely must drive to Florida once every couple of years.

Also, Tesla is setting up charging stations across the country that give another 150 miles of range in half an hour... for free.
Hardly anyone buys EVs. The reasons: range and recharge times. It's not a canard when everyone is actually doing it.

People vote with their wallets. Even with subsidies, they don't buy EVs. The automakers are left with two options: package them as high dollar exotics and sell a few copies or else make smaller EVs that have to be moved at a loss. Even the subsidies don't eliminate the losses.

If you were correct, then EVs would have already been popular. EV fans always make this claim, yet they can't prove it with the figures that count the most: sales volumes.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 3:06 pm
  #119  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Hiro11
Yes, a sedan that generates 100% of torque which allows 911-style 0-60 times, that has the lowest center of gravity of any competing car which that allows it to corner like a sports car, that seats seven, whose engine has one moving part, who is perfectly silent at highway speeds and looks like a Tesla S is indeed an "over developed golf cart".

In my opinion, it's not only the first truly viable electric car, it's also one of the best cars of any type available today.
You may be right, but it really doesn't concern me. I don't have to agree with you, and you can't make me!

I like cars in general, but there are some I would never buy, such as Mercedes Benz (I might make an exception for a pre '87 SL), though I love BMWs; I would never buy a Volkswagen, though I would buy an Audi, I previously owned an Alfa, but I wouldn't buy a Fiat; I wouldn't buy a Kia, nor Hyundai; I own a Honda, but wouldn't buy a Toyota (especially a Tundra! ). I own a Ford, in fact two, but I wouldn't buy a Chevy; I wouldn't buy any French car ; if I had the money, I'd buy an Aston Martin, and a Bentley too, but not a Rolls Royce. There are many cars I admire, and given the opportunity, and the money, I would buy, on the other hand there are many others I wouldn't buy under any circumstances. The Tesla falls into the latter group! Deal with it!

Last edited by Pulaski; Jul 9th 2013 at 3:10 pm.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 3:16 pm
  #120  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Hiro11
This is a canard. How often does anyone need a car that goes further than 265 miles in one day? Once a year, once every couple of years? For the vast majority of people, the vast majority of miles are to the office and back every day. The Tesla Model S is ideal for that purpose, especially since lots of offices already offer free electric car charging ports (mine does). Rent a Corolla if you absolutely must drive to Florida once every couple of years.

Also, Tesla is setting up charging stations across the country that give another 150 miles of range in half an hour... for free.
Thank you Hiro11
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