Gizza Job

Old Jan 24th 2020, 4:56 pm
  #181  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
In places like California and BC and some other states where serving wages dont exist, I feel less obligated to tip.

Not my job to top up wages of employees nor do I have the income where I can just tip others. What makes the server making $14 per hour more worthy of a tip than say my wife who is shopping for people but cant accept tips.

Or the McDonalds employees.

Servers here in a busy restarsunt can clear 25 plus an hour with tips, and in about a year base wage will be $15 per hour.

I try to never utilize a service where tips are expected so I can avoid having to feel obligated to tip.
But then you are penalizing the employee who has no control over the 'system'.

Given that you yourself can't afford to do so, then I'd say it's fine - you aren't skipping the tip on principle but rather out of necessity. I'd love for the system to be different, but it isn't and I know a few waiters who try to make a living this way and without tips they wouldn't survive. These days, I do dial back the tip in expensive restaurants (which I don't frequent often anyway). My 'daily dinner' with my g/f typically costs $50 for two (we've both quit drinking alcohol these days, which cuts back the restaurant bill enormously!), so a 20% tip is $10; no problem there. But if we go to a fancy restaurant where the bill is over $100, I'm more inclined to tip 'only' 10-15%. I have known some waiters who make BIG money on tips in fancy restaurants; taking home the equivalent of a $150k salary.
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Old Jan 24th 2020, 5:05 pm
  #182  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

I remember reading up on tipping before a trip to New York because I wanted to do the right thing. It seemed that tipping a bartender a couple of dollars per drink was the way to go, so that's what we did - if a round of two beers was $10 we'd tip $2 etc. We went to the same bar in Greenwich Village every night because it was around the corner from where we were staying. What the tipping guides didn't tell me was the bartender might give you every fourth or fifth round free, but ours did A very boozy but wonderful holiday!
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Old Jan 24th 2020, 5:28 pm
  #183  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Arriving here from the UK, I was a confirmed non-tipper. Then a few years ago I found a book in the library named 'Waiter Rant', which describes the experience of working as a waiter in a New York Bistro. After reading Waiter Rant I converted to a tipper (although I would still prefer a fixed amount to a percentage). Waiter Rant is recommended reading.

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Old Jan 24th 2020, 6:49 pm
  #184  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
If it's actually a tip, then I can't see the objection to this - bad service should result in little or no tip, If it's not actually a tip, it shouldn't be handled as such, but stated up front as a service or delivery fee. By going down the tip route and paying drivers so little that it's uneconomic for them to deliver without tips, they are putting the customer in an insidious position where they're obliged to be a "good tipper" regardless of the level of service provided.
You’ve identified the issue, of course - sure, it’s technically a ‘tip’, but the reality is that it forms at least half of what we’re being paid. A typical order for me might be to drive 10 mins to a store, to shop for around 25-30 things. If everything is in stock (it invariably isn’t), I can be in and out of the store in under 30 mins. Another 10 mins to the customer’s house, hand over bags. Best case scenario is 45-50 mins, and say 6-7 miles of driving overall.

The base pay for that will be $7, which is of course insanity given that I’m incurring all the vehicle costs, paying 15.3% in self-employment taxes, get no paid time off, and no benefits like workers’ liability insurance or unemployment insurance (I’m not even going to bother pretending there should be health insurance and 401k match in there!).

And that’s best case - in reality, there might be a 5-10 minute wait at the deli counter; there’ll be out of stock items where I need to chat with the customer about possible replacements, send options/ photos, wait for their replies; there might be lines at the checkout, etc. So a usual time to complete an order like that is an hour or more.

There has to be a tip that brings it to at *least* $14-15 an hour to cover costs and make it somewhat equivalent to doing a $10 retail job. And bear in mind that we’re only being paid while actively working - there’s no compensation for the convenience of having us on-shift (we sign up for blocks of hours) so that we’re available for when customers place orders.

I turn down about 4/5 orders as they’re completely unprofitable, largely because the company/ industry chooses to obfuscate the reality of what’s happening. Half the customers think we work directly for the store, like any other Kroger or whatever employee. The other half know we’re independents, but are led into comfortable denial over thinking too hard about exactly how they get an hour or more of a person’s work time in their own car, along with all the supporting tech and customer service infrastructure, for the platform delivery fee of about $7 plus (depending on store) a small upcharge on the grocery items.

When the tip box is presented as part of the ordering process, it’s in the context of wording about ‘it’s totally optional, can be edited up to 3 days after delivery, etc’. They make it sound like an extra gratuity, rather than an essential part of the overall compensation needed for the work.

It’s infuriating. On the whole, the customers are reasonable and intelligent. I’m sure if the platform was up front and open with them, it would be a lot easier on everyone rather than the current set-up of endless small fees for delivery/ service/ alcohol handling/ tip/ etc. They KNOW the time and effort involved in shopping a cart of groceries and where they live in relation to the store. They know it’s ultimately going to cost them $15-20 for a personal convenience service like this.

This current tip pretense isn’t working. Customers who take the platform at its word and zero out the tip are then left confused and angry when their order paying just $7 bounces around for hours, arrives late, is shopped in a desultory fashion where out of stock items are simply refunded so that the shopper can move on briskly, no one bothers with niceties like a quick text to see if they want bananas or avocados that are more or less ripe, bags are dumped on the doorstep with a quick bell ring rather than being carefully handed over from insulated bags.

The result is a dissatisfied customer, who doesn’t place another order but meanwhile blames the individual shopper for their order being late = bad ratings = deactivation from platform = platform has to recruit more shoppers = more customer dissatisfaction while newbies are inexperienced and slower, and clog up the shopper helplines with inane questions about how to use the app properly.

I’d love a simple model of actually being paid adequately for the average work, with the customer then being invited to tip a few bucks afterwards to personally reward their shopper for being particularly conscientious about produce and meat options, or because the order was more demanding (multiple heavy packs of water or dog food, deli items, inclement weather, 3rd floor apartment with no elevator, etc).
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Old Jan 24th 2020, 6:53 pm
  #185  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
I can't afford to have my food delivered, and I have a job. If I order take-out I'll go pick it up myself, save money, and get it fresh and hot and home soonest.
I never order hot food delivery. I can’t stand steamed, soggy, luke warm food.
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Old Jan 24th 2020, 6:55 pm
  #186  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
I never order hot food delivery. I can’t stand steamed, soggy, luke warm food.
It's ok if the restaurant is 5 minutes up the road. And I've just confirmed that I'm a lazy cow haven't I
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Old Jan 24th 2020, 7:17 pm
  #187  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
It's ok if the restaurant is 5 minutes up the road. And I've just confirmed that I'm a lazy cow haven't I
It's easy for me because you can drive almost anywhere in Regina in 15 or 20 minutes unless it's rush hour.
Right now if I wanted to order take out it would probably be a 20 minute round trip.
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Old Jan 24th 2020, 8:00 pm
  #188  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
But then you are penalizing the employee who has no control over the 'system'.

Given that you yourself can't afford to do so, then I'd say it's fine - you aren't skipping the tip on principle but rather out of necessity. I'd love for the system to be different, but it isn't and I know a few waiters who try to make a living this way and without tips they wouldn't survive. These days, I do dial back the tip in expensive restaurants (which I don't frequent often anyway). My 'daily dinner' with my g/f typically costs $50 for two (we've both quit drinking alcohol these days, which cuts back the restaurant bill enormously!), so a 20% tip is $10; no problem there. But if we go to a fancy restaurant where the bill is over $100, I'm more inclined to tip 'only' 10-15%. I have known some waiters who make BIG money on tips in fancy restaurants; taking home the equivalent of a $150k salary.
I get in places that have serving wages tips are the only way to earn anything, but California has no serving wage, the server is making the same per hour base wage as anyone else making min wage and plenty of min wage jobs that are customer facing and just as difficult as serving is but those folks don't get tipped.

Hourly wage here in BC $13.85, yes it's low but why tip servers but not personal shoppers? They both provide a service, they both spend 8 hours on their feet and deal with customers but only the server gets tipped.

It's the randomness that perplexes me, why some min wage workers apparently deserve tips because they can't survive otherwise but others making min wage are not deserving of tips but are still providing a service and still working just as hard if not harder.

Hotels are another example, the night servers for example at the last hotel got tipped, but the breakfast servers didn't, the base hourly wage was exactly the same for both.

Just seems so inconsistent.

I just try to avoid going anywhere or using a service where tips are expected best way to deal with it until society changes, just hard when say you have to take a taxi to work because car wont start or the bus is late, and you already paying 3 hours wage for the 20 minute ride and the cabbie wants a tip on top, like buddy this ride already cost me 3 hours wage.

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Old Jan 24th 2020, 8:14 pm
  #189  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I get in places that have serving wages tips are the only way to earn anything, but California has no serving wage, the server is making the same per hour base wage as anyone else making min wage and plenty of min wage jobs that are customer facing and just as difficult as serving is but those folks don't get tipped.

Hourly wage here in BC $13.85, yes it's low but why tip servers but not personal shoppers? They both provide a service, they both spend 8 hours on their feet and deal with customers but only the server gets tipped.

It's the randomness that perplexes me, why some min wage workers apparently deserve tips because they can't survive otherwise but others making min wage are not deserving of tips but are still providing a service and still working just as hard if not harder.

Hotels are another example, the night servers for example at the last hotel got tipped, but the breakfast servers didn't, the base hourly wage was exactly the same for both.

Just seems so inconsistent.

I just try to avoid going anywhere or using a service where tips are expected best way to deal with it until society changes, just hard when say you have to take a taxi to work because car wont start or the bus is late, and you already paying 3 hours wage for the 20 minute ride and the cabbie wants a tip on top, like buddy this ride already cost me 3 hours wage.
I agree, it's a big mess and I wish it were different.

I have to say, I don't understand the current situation in CA. When I eat in SF, I see a surcharge on the bill of about 4 or 5% and the wording suggests it's because of some extra cost they incur as part of being in SF. But when I eat out in the East Bay, I don't see this surcharge. I'm so 'conditioned' to paying the tip in a restaurant I will likely continue to do so. IF I were to use any 'delivery' or 'shopping' service I'm sure I would tip them well also ... I just have no desire to use such a service at the moment.
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Old Jan 24th 2020, 8:28 pm
  #190  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I agree, it's a big mess and I wish it were different.

I have to say, I don't understand the current situation in CA. When I eat in SF, I see a surcharge on the bill of about 4 or 5% and the wording suggests it's because of some extra cost they incur as part of being in SF. But when I eat out in the East Bay, I don't see this surcharge. I'm so 'conditioned' to paying the tip in a restaurant I will likely continue to do so. IF I were to use any 'delivery' or 'shopping' service I'm sure I would tip them well also ... I just have no desire to use such a service at the moment.
Min wage in SF proper is higher vs the rest of the state, probably why.

You will see surcharges around the Seattle area as well where the min wage is higher.

Examples:







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Old Jan 24th 2020, 8:34 pm
  #191  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I agree, it's a big mess and I wish it were different.

I have to say, I don't understand the current situation in CA. When I eat in SF, I see a surcharge on the bill of about 4 or 5% and the wording suggests it's because of some extra cost they incur as part of being in SF. But when I eat out in the East Bay, I don't see this surcharge. I'm so 'conditioned' to paying the tip in a restaurant I will likely continue to do so. IF I were to use any 'delivery' or 'shopping' service I'm sure I would tip them well also ... I just have no desire to use such a service at the moment.
That is a charge because SF mandates health coverage for employees at places with fewer employees than the ACA mandate requires. Of course, you have to question why this particular business expense is broken out as a separate charge...
'
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Old Jan 24th 2020, 9:29 pm
  #192  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Companies like to obfuscate their true prices by adding in political statements to the bill like the living wage surcharge. It's all bollox of course, everyone else manages to just increase their base charges to absorb increases in business expenses. It doesn't cost an extra dollar per day for your car to sit in a 200 capacity parking lot with two attendants, that money is going into profits more than the pockets of those on the minimum wage.
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Old Jan 31st 2020, 9:35 pm
  #193  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

It appears there are some decent gig jobs out there! I started a new one yesterday, doing deliveries for a company that aggregates produce from local farmers, then delivers to people’s homes once a week - a digital farmers’ market, pretty much.

I got the gig through responding to a Facebook post, passed the background check, and was invited for my first shift yesterday. The job pays $10 per hour plus mileage reimbursement, and they’d worked out the time/ miles for my required route and gave me a check printed out for me already, before I’d done any work for them! Very decent and trusting.

I loaded my car with the bags (nothing heavy, insulated totes about the size of supermarket paper bags), then pottered around Columbus listening to my audiobook for 4-5 hours, dropping bags off on doorsteps (nothing required beyond knocking and walking off, like with any other packages).

This will be a great once a week gig for me, and I don’t even need to commit to working every Thursday as I’m free to decline their offered shift any time. Perhaps I can find a few more things like this, build a portfolio of flexible mini income streams, and move away from the pure gig work with ‘app as boss’ tyranny and constant fear of deactivation for reasons beyond my control.

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Old Feb 1st 2020, 1:04 am
  #194  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
It appears there are some decent gig jobs out there! I started a new one yesterday, doing deliveries for a company that aggregates produce from local farmers, then delivers to people’s homes once a week - a digital farmers’ market, pretty much.

I got the gig through responding to a Facebook post, passed the background check, and was invited for my first shift yesterday. The job pays $10 per hour plus mileage reimbursement, and they’d worked out the time/ miles for my required route and gave me a check printed out for me already, before I’d done any work for them! Very decent and trusting.

I loaded my car with the bags (nothing heavy, insulated totes about the size of supermarket paper bags), then pottered around Columbus listening to my audiobook for 4-5 hours, dropping bags off on doorsteps (nothing required beyond knocking and walking off, like with any other packages).

This will be a great once a week gig for me, and I don’t even need to commit to working every Thursday as I’m free to decline their offered shift any time. Perhaps I can find a few more things like this, build a portfolio of flexible mini income streams, and move away from the pure gig work with ‘app as boss’ tyranny and constant fear of deactivation for reasons beyond my control.
Being a Shopper or a Farmer seems to be a more worthwhile occupation than delivering Subs to people who can't be arsed making a sandwich, and at the same time adding my bit to the planet's air pollution.
I checked out the Shopper company, but they don't yet operate in this area.

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Old Feb 2nd 2020, 6:43 pm
  #195  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
It appears there are some decent gig jobs out there! I started a new one yesterday, doing deliveries for a company that aggregates produce from local farmers, then delivers to people’s homes once a week - a digital farmers’ market, pretty much.

I got the gig through responding to a Facebook post, passed the background check, and was invited for my first shift yesterday. The job pays $10 per hour plus mileage reimbursement, and they’d worked out the time/ miles for my required route and gave me a check printed out for me already, before I’d done any work for them! Very decent and trusting.

I loaded my car with the bags (nothing heavy, insulated totes about the size of supermarket paper bags), then pottered around Columbus listening to my audiobook for 4-5 hours, dropping bags off on doorsteps (nothing required beyond knocking and walking off, like with any other packages).

This will be a great once a week gig for me, and I don’t even need to commit to working every Thursday as I’m free to decline their offered shift any time. Perhaps I can find a few more things like this, build a portfolio of flexible mini income streams, and move away from the pure gig work with ‘app as boss’ tyranny and constant fear of deactivation for reasons beyond my control.
I forget now, are you doing a bunch of different gig jobs simply to approximate a full-time job, or are you only interested in part-time work? For those people who are using gig jobs simply as a way to make a living, and who would prefer a stable, full-time job if one were available, these below-minimum-wage opportunities smell of exploitation, for sure. But for those who just want to supplement their retirement, and/or need to maintain a great degree of flexibility in their schedule, I do see them as a potential opportunity that would otherwise not exist. The fact you are able to decline work at any time is definitely a huge selling point on these gigs, compared to a full-time job. The employer can't rely on your participation, and thus, faces 'service delivery' issues, and has to maintain a relatively large pool of possible workers in order to be able to ensure service delivery to the consumer.

I do think this is a fascinating discussion about the issues surrounding 'workers rights', 'minimum wage', etc.
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