Gizza Job

Old Feb 4th 2020, 12:42 am
  #196  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Food delivery services trying to deliver from restaurants they don't have agreements with:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Grubhub-DoorDash-rush-to-add-restaurants-15023372.php
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Old Feb 4th 2020, 1:09 am
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Food delivery services trying to deliver from restaurants they don't have agreements with:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Grubhub-DoorDash-rush-to-add-restaurants-15023372.php
In my early days of taking Company A deliveries, I came across 3 restaurants that would not accept Company A orders:

- the first time was when I arrived to pick up an order, and was told in no uncertain terms that this establishment does not work with Company A. I had to text the customer, to which the customer responded "Well how come we were able to place an order from their menu?". This was how I first learned that Company A takes orders for restaurants without their agreement or permission to publish their menu.

- another time when I arrived to pick up a 'pay with Company A's pre-loaded debit card' order, I was told the restaurant is in dispute with Company A over unpaid monies, and is no longer accepting orders from Company A. I even offered to place the order myself, but the owner is so mad with Company A that he refused to accept the order from me because he knew it was a Company A order.

- at a third place which had previously accepted orders direct from Company A, I was informed that the restaurant no longer takes Company A orders, but if I want to place and pay for the order myself, I can do so.

All 3 restaurant's menus to this day are STILL listed in the Company A app.

Unfortunately Company B are playing copycat by issuing their own pre-loaded debit cards, and have just started sending drivers offers to place and pay for the order themselves.
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Old Feb 4th 2020, 7:24 am
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Food delivery services trying to deliver from restaurants they don't have agreements with:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Grubhub-DoorDash-rush-to-add-restaurants-15023372.php
Originally Posted by sid nv View Post
In my early days of taking Company A deliveries, I came across 3 restaurants that would not accept Company A orders:

- the first time was when I arrived to pick up an order, and was told in no uncertain terms that this establishment does not work with Company A. I had to text the customer, to which the customer responded "Well how come we were able to place an order from their menu?". This was how I first learned that Company A takes orders for restaurants without their agreement or permission to publish their menu.

- another time when I arrived to pick up a 'pay with Company A's pre-loaded debit card' order, I was told the restaurant is in dispute with Company A over unpaid monies, and is no longer accepting orders from Company A. I even offered to place the order myself, but the owner is so mad with Company A that he refused to accept the order from me because he knew it was a Company A order.

- at a third place which had previously accepted orders direct from Company A, I was informed that the restaurant no longer takes Company A orders, but if I want to place and pay for the order myself, I can do so.

All 3 restaurant's menus to this day are STILL listed in the Company A app.

Unfortunately Company B are playing copycat by issuing their own pre-loaded debit cards, and have just started sending drivers offers to place and pay for the order themselves.
This is all very fascinating stuff! I hate that you have to bear the brunt of all this confusion. I think it's crazy for these delivery companies to list restaurants and publish menus for establishments who positively don't want to work with them. The legal aspects discussed in the article are quite interesting also - you can't legally stop someone from placing an order, but you can stop someone from claiming a relationship that doesn't exist, and for using copyrighted material (logos and menus). I see that GrubHub's stock has taken a big hit since September 2018.
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Old Feb 4th 2020, 4:46 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

One problem with the food delivery company swiping and publishing menus without restaurants' agreement is that restaurants change their menus, but the food delivery company does not keep up and change their copy accordingly. In this situation, I have to call the customer: "Hello, this is your Company A driver here. The MegaBurger is discontinued, so would you like the Godzilla Bat Burger instead? Also, they got taken over here by Pepsico, so they don't have Coke anymore. I can get you a 64oz bucket of Dr Cavity or the new Lizardade High Energy ShockBoost NerveBlitz flavor". And then a few minutes later: "Hi it's me again. The fountain drink machine is broke, but I can pick up a 2L bottle of ToothRot if you like. Hello? Hello?".
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Old Feb 4th 2020, 5:07 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by sid nv View Post
One problem with the food delivery company swiping and publishing menus without restaurants' agreement is that restaurants change their menus, but the food delivery company does not keep up and change their copy accordingly. In this situation, I have to call the customer: "Hello, this is your Company A driver here. The MegaBurger is discontinued, so would you like the Godzilla Bat Burger instead? Also, they got taken over here by Pepsico, so they don't have Coke anymore. I can get you a 64oz bucket of Dr Cavity or the new Lizardade High Energy ShockBoost NerveBlitz flavor". And then a few minutes later: "Hi it's me again. The fountain drink machine is broke, but I can pick up a 2L bottle of ToothRot if you like. Hello? Hello?".
LOL !
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Old Feb 4th 2020, 9:24 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

I think Domino's might have had issues with the delivery apps, they put signs up in their store advising customers they don't use or recommend 3rd party delivery services and that they use their own employees who wear Domino's uniforms and that anyone delivering their product not wearing a Domino's uniform is not an authorized delivery agent or something along those lines.

One thing the apps have allowed to flourish are virtual or ghost restaurants, so they have opened up a new avenue of business for people to open with lower costs vs a traditional restaurant.
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Old Feb 5th 2020, 5:03 am
  #202  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I get in places that have serving wages tips are the only way to earn anything, but California has no serving wage, the server is making the same per hour base wage as anyone else making min wage and plenty of min wage jobs that are customer facing and just as difficult as serving is but those folks don't get tipped.

Hourly wage here in BC $13.85, yes it's low but why tip servers but not personal shoppers? They both provide a service, they both spend 8 hours on their feet and deal with customers but only the server gets tipped.

It's the randomness that perplexes me, why some min wage workers apparently deserve tips because they can't survive otherwise but others making min wage are not deserving of tips but are still providing a service and still working just as hard if not harder.

Hotels are another example, the night servers for example at the last hotel got tipped, but the breakfast servers didn't, the base hourly wage was exactly the same for both.

Just seems so inconsistent.

I just try to avoid going anywhere or using a service where tips are expected best way to deal with it until society changes, just hard when say you have to take a taxi to work because car wont start or the bus is late, and you already paying 3 hours wage for the 20 minute ride and the cabbie wants a tip on top, like buddy this ride already cost me 3 hours wage.
You want to eat at a restaurant but you don't want to tip? See what kind of service you get. It won't be much.
TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service. Being a waitress or bartender are very demanding jobs. The Public is very demanding especially when it comes to their food. Without TIPS what's the incentive to serve the customer? Furthermore because of tips waitresses and bartenders sell the business, they're your best salesmen. Without tips every restaurant becomes another version of Faulty Towers.
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Old Feb 5th 2020, 5:20 am
  #203  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Seems like food delivery is going down the same road as Uber/Lyft etc where to grab market share, companies are doing a lot of dubious things. Maybe it'll all shake out eventually, but I'm not a fan. But I do live in a place where I can walk to a whole bunch of restaurants, so the dynamics for me are different than they will be for a lot of people.
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Old Feb 15th 2020, 5:22 pm
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I just read this article - https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...w-15042893.php about a new (proposed?) law that is intended to help those who are being exploited by the current setup, but which may impact a whole lot more people negatively. I'm wondering if it will negatively affect me. I've been self-employed for the past 6 years, offering contract services for IT. But I'm working less and less (by choice) and the overhead of maintaining the 'company' (fees and accountant charges) is getting too high so I'm about to dissolve my company and just become a 'sole proprietor', which - by the sound of things - may make me much less employable now as those people hiring me may worry that they'll get hit with the need to pay me 'benefits' and such. I charge a nice hourly rate that more than covers everything I could ever hope for in terms of 'benefits', so I have absolutely no desire to be paid benefits, but - it sounds like employers may be vulnerable to lawsuits /challenges.
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Old Feb 18th 2020, 4:17 am
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Default Re: Gizza Job

How arbitration agreements screw gig workers and how DoorDash drivers turned it to their advantage:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ation-mistake/
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Old Feb 18th 2020, 5:47 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I just read this article - https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...w-15042893.php about a new (proposed?) law that is intended to help those who are being exploited by the current setup, but which may impact a whole lot more people negatively. I'm wondering if it will negatively affect me. I've been self-employed for the past 6 years, offering contract services for IT. But I'm working less and less (by choice) and the overhead of maintaining the 'company' (fees and accountant charges) is getting too high so I'm about to dissolve my company and just become a 'sole proprietor', which - by the sound of things - may make me much less employable now as those people hiring me may worry that they'll get hit with the need to pay me 'benefits' and such. I charge a nice hourly rate that more than covers everything I could ever hope for in terms of 'benefits', so I have absolutely no desire to be paid benefits, but - it sounds like employers may be vulnerable to lawsuits /challenges.
I doubt if you will be affected by AB-5. Professionals are generally exempt. If you negotiate your rates and/or earn at least twice minimum wage, you are exempt. Look up the ABC test for exemptions.
Contrast that with the food delivery company that sends me an offer for $3 to deliver a Chipotle using my own vehicle. I can take it or leave it, there is no negotiation, but apparently the food delivery company considers themselves exempt from AB-5 because they are a technology platform and are not in the business of delivering food.

The intent of AB-5 is to stop "independent contractor" exploitation by the gig companies. The author of AB-5 has stated that some tweaking of the code will be needed to exempt certain contractors who are adversely affected.
To give you some idea of the poor conditions some drivers are working in, one food delivery company recently had to stop their "instant cashout" feature. Instant Cashout allows the driver to receive money into their bank account the same day as soon as they finish their shift. The food delivery company removed this feature because some scammers were calling drivers pretending to represent the food delivery company, with the end result being the driver's pay ended up in the scammer's bank account. So now there is a delay before the money can be paid into the bank account, and a lot of drivers are upset that the "instant cashout" button has disappeared in the app. These drivers are so desperate to meet their bills that they are unable to wait until the end of the week to get paid.

Really the whole food delivery business model is stupid. You can't expect to get your 20pc Chicken McNuggets delivered to your door for $2 plus $2 tip. The food delivery company based in SF is ramping up to IPO with an appearance of being a profitable business. If they go public, someone will walk off with a lot of money, and it won't be us drivers.


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Old Feb 23rd 2020, 3:20 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I forget now, are you doing a bunch of different gig jobs simply to approximate a full-time job, or are you only interested in part-time work? For those people who are using gig jobs simply as a way to make a living, and who would prefer a stable, full-time job if one were available, these below-minimum-wage opportunities smell of exploitation, for sure. But for those who just want to supplement their retirement, and/or need to maintain a great degree of flexibility in their schedule, I do see them as a potential opportunity that would otherwise not exist. The fact you are able to decline work at any time is definitely a huge selling point on these gigs, compared to a full-time job. The employer can't rely on your participation, and thus, faces 'service delivery' issues, and has to maintain a relatively large pool of possible workers in order to be able to ensure service delivery to the consumer.

I do think this is a fascinating discussion about the issues surrounding 'workers rights', 'minimum wage', etc.
I’m closer to your second scenario. Financially I only need part-time work, but some weeks I choose to do full-time hours. Yes, the flexibility is a great benefit - I enjoy being able to take more time off when my kids are staying with me during school vacations, or I go to visit my daughter (she lives in Texas, so it’s usually a 3-4 day trip).

I have no illusions (unlike some of the more militant Facebook gig group members) that I ‘should’ be making $20-30 an hour for this. But I do think it’s reasonable to expect it to pay, after expenses, around the same as working at a grocery store. The skills and customer service efforts required are very similar, and what I get in flexibility is balanced out by those workers getting benefits for unemployment, healthcare, pensions, etc.

I’m quite surprised that traditional employers haven’t jumped on this cost-saving bandwagon, and declared that all their employees are now independent contractors too. There’s no material difference between the way my gig shopping company works, and a store like Kroger deciding that they’ll have a large pool of pre-screened and pre-trained shelf stockers and checkout operators, who can then all compete for available shifts in a ‘whoever takes the lowest pay offer wins’ Hunger Games-style app scheduling tool.
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Old Feb 23rd 2020, 3:28 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
I’m closer to your second scenario. Financially I only need part-time work, but some weeks I choose to do full-time hours. Yes, the flexibility is a great benefit - I enjoy being able to take more time off when my kids are staying with me during school vacations, or I go to visit my daughter (she lives in Texas, so it’s usually a 3-4 day trip).

I have no illusions (unlike some of the more militant Facebook gig group members) that I ‘should’ be making $20-30 an hour for this. But I do think it’s reasonable to expect it to pay, after expenses, around the same as working at a grocery store. The skills and customer service efforts required are very similar, and what I get in flexibility is balanced out by those workers getting benefits for unemployment, healthcare, pensions, etc.

I’m quite surprised that traditional employers haven’t jumped on this cost-saving bandwagon, and declared that all their employees are now independent contractors too. There’s no material difference between the way my gig shopping company works, and a store like Kroger deciding that they’ll have a large pool of pre-screened and pre-trained shelf stockers and checkout operators, who can then all compete for available shifts in a ‘whoever takes the lowest pay offer wins’ Hunger Games-style app scheduling tool.
There was and is an attempt to do that very thing thru temp agencies supplying workers for larger companies. It is difficult for companies to just declare employees independent contractors due to state and federal worker protection laws.
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Old Feb 23rd 2020, 3:59 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by ddsrph View Post
There was and is an attempt to do that very thing thru temp agencies supplying workers for larger companies. It is difficult for companies to just declare employees independent contractors due to state and federal worker protection laws.
Sure, yet dozens of these gig companies for shopping, food delivery, scooter charging, etc etc, all seem to have done just that. It’s as if established legacy companies are stuck with the old, expensive, legally protected staff model, while the brash newbie app-based companies are doing whatever they want.

It’ll be interesting to see how the law change in California pans out, and if it spreads.
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Old Feb 23rd 2020, 8:01 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Maybe the growth in the gig economy and lack of benefits will grow to a point where a majority have no healthcare and now support universal system. Gig economy could have an upside there.

While not the same as gig type jobs, Delta Airlines has for 30 some years offered a sort hybrid in their ready reserve program for some work groups which reduces costs for the company and provides flexibility some people need and desire. They get a slight higher starting pay but fewer raises, limited benefits, but still receive the valuable flight benefits, have no fixed schedule, and flexibility to choose when they work.

Also helps keep staffing in-house vs outsourcing at airports with only a couple flights a day that would otherwise be outsourced, better to have ready reserve and some benefits vs outsourcing companies who largely offer no benefits or very limited benefits at min wage.

Some companies also prefer to have more control over their work group. Like one grocery store here could easily use an app service to provide their home delivery service but choose to have their own vans, and workers paying $17/hr instead so the service is consistent and they have direct control over how things are done. Probably also helps keep delivery times within the promised window.

If gas and insurance wasn't so high here, I would consider one of the apps who do grocery shopping but regular car insurance isn't sufficient, and gas is (1.45/liter) $5.51 per US gallon, so once the car expenses are accounted for there simply is too little profit to justify doing it.

Probably why I see so many of these app delivery people using bikes instead, but that drastically lowers your delivery area and only really works if you stay within the downtown core.

Last edited by Jsmth321; Feb 23rd 2020 at 8:05 pm.
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