Gizza Job

Old Feb 23rd 2020, 11:37 pm
  #211  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
If gas and insurance wasn't so high here, I would consider one of the apps who do grocery shopping but regular car insurance isn't sufficient, and gas is (1.45/liter) $5.51 per US gallon, so once the car expenses are accounted for there simply is too little profit to justify doing it.

Probably why I see so many of these app delivery people using bikes instead, but that drastically lowers your delivery area and only really works if you stay within the downtown core.
Yes, I have commercial gig/ ride share type insurance (for goods, not passengers), which is about $15 more a month. I’m very risk averse and rule-abiding!

It’s also fun this time of year on the FB groups, as the penny drops for people that ‘OMG, I have to pay taxes on this money? And what’s this whole 1099 = 15.3% self-employment taxes plus income tax nightmare?!! And why did no one tell me I’m supposed to be tracking my mileage as a deduction?!!!!!’

Last edited by kodokan; Feb 23rd 2020 at 11:39 pm.
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Old Feb 24th 2020, 12:03 am
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
Yes, I have commercial gig/ ride share type insurance (for goods, not passengers), which is about $15 more a month. I’m very risk averse and rule-abiding!

It’s also fun this time of year on the FB groups, as the penny drops for people that ‘OMG, I have to pay taxes on this money? And what’s this whole 1099 = 15.3% self-employment taxes plus income tax nightmare?!! And why did no one tell me I’m supposed to be tracking my mileage as a deduction?!!!!!’
Yes I am not fond of having to deal with self employment income either, unless its high enough income to justify the added costs, my wife had some self employed income in Canada last year and its basically costing us money, reality is she should have been an employee but they put her as independent contractor but since she worked in their office, using all of their equipment and supplies etc, there is nothing to deduct so really simply wasn't worthwhile on her part.
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Old Feb 24th 2020, 6:30 pm
  #213  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Had an interesting food delivery yesterday to a workplace I had never heard of. The front door to the building was locked, and a peer through the window shows what appears to be a Senior version of an institution that is straight out of Ken Kesey's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Rang the front door bell, and upon the door opening I was confronted by two nurses smiling slightly too gaily. Normally at this point I hand the food over at the doorstep, but there was clearly an expectation that I come inside, and unwittingly under the spell of the Combine I stepped inside and the door closed behind me. I hand the food over to the nice lady who is nothing at all like Nurse Ratched, and then push the exit bar on the door only to find myself locked in. Slight panic, but the nurse used her body to hide the digital panel so that the inmates could not see as she keyed in the code to unlock the door, and I was allowed to escape.

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Old Feb 24th 2020, 6:36 pm
  #214  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Well, I'm hoping this whole gig economy rip-off is coming to an end.
In the old days, a freelancer/independant consultant or whatever would be paid more to offset the costs involved in being self employed. I think that if your business model relies on denying people health cover/unemployment benefit/social security payments then it needs to be scrapped. And apparently, I'm not the only one.
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/04/79314...ries-push-back
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Old Feb 24th 2020, 8:51 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
Well, I'm hoping this whole gig economy rip-off is coming to an end.
In the old days, a freelancer/independant consultant or whatever would be paid more to offset the costs involved in being self employed. I think that if your business model relies on denying people health cover/unemployment benefit/social security payments then it needs to be scrapped. And apparently, I'm not the only one.
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/04/79314...ries-push-back
I can see both sides of the coin here but the new services provided by Lyft and the food delivery apps simply will not work if the participants are treated as employees with full benefits. I think each individual should look at it as a take it or leave it proposition and act accordingly. Nothing is stopping anyone from getting a real 9 to 5 job. For those who like the flexibility of the status quo then go for it. The market will determine the future or maybe Bernie will create such a socialist utopia that it will become a mute point.
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Old Feb 25th 2020, 3:36 am
  #216  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Looks like some of the delivery apps have too many people trying to get too little business.

I tried to sign up for one, and they have 0 available for my area.

Every area I tried within 20 miles radius just got me this "Currently unavailable for new couriers"

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Old Feb 25th 2020, 4:07 am
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by ddsrph View Post
I can see both sides of the coin here but the new services provided by Lyft and the food delivery apps simply will not work if the participants are treated as employees with full benefits. I think each individual should look at it as a take it or leave it proposition and act accordingly. Nothing is stopping anyone from getting a real 9 to 5 job. For those who like the flexibility of the status quo then go for it. The market will determine the future or maybe Bernie will create such a socialist utopia that it will become a mute point.
But that is the whole posit of this thread. People who are disadvantaged - in my case, being too old - cannot get a "real" 9 to 5 job. If I was a candidate for US President or Supreme Judge then I should be good, but when applying for a job that actually does some useful work I will not be considered. And mute moot.


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Old Feb 25th 2020, 2:37 pm
  #218  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by sid nv View Post
But that is the whole posit of this thread. People who are disadvantaged - in my case, being too old - cannot get a "real" 9 to 5 job. If I was a candidate for US President or Supreme Judge then I should be good, but when applying for a job that actually does some useful work I will not be considered. And mute moot.
I see your point. The food delivery apps will just have to start charging more for the service to cover SS, workman’s comp. vacation pay, and liability insurance now that workers are employees.
On the other hand these app companies could easily make a modest increase to their fee and encourage tipping to better compensate their delivery force.
The IRS and other agencies are actively looking at abuses of employee mis classification. My their definition the app delivery drivers are clearly independent contractors. There is a good summary of this definition on Wikipedia.

Last edited by ddsrph; Feb 25th 2020 at 3:19 pm.
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Old Feb 25th 2020, 5:37 pm
  #219  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by ddsrph View Post
I can see both sides of the coin here but the new services provided by Lyft and the food delivery apps simply will not work if the participants are treated as employees with full benefits. I think each individual should look at it as a take it or leave it proposition and act accordingly. Nothing is stopping anyone from getting a real 9 to 5 job. For those who like the flexibility of the status quo then go for it. The market will determine the future or maybe Bernie will create such a socialist utopia that it will become a mute point.
I'm inclined to agree, but on the other hand ... one could argue the same for minimum wage. The setting of a minimum wage is in some ways arbitrary and definitely makes a lot of potential jobs uneconomic; cheaper to send work overseas or automate than pay someone a minimum age. So why not eliminate minimum wage and let the market decide - people 'can take it or leave it'. The problem with that argument (which I do believe has SOME merit) is that companies in many situations have a monopoly and could drive wages down to a very low level and still get people to apply, simply because the company has eliminated any alternatives. Walmart, for example, is famous for undercutting every other vendor in town, putting them all out of business, and then becoming the only game in town ... so they could offer very low wages and still have workers. These workers then become dependent on the state for services since their job doesn't provide enough. So that's why I'm in favor of the 'minimum wage' concept. But I do feel that 'some jobs' should be exempt; setting up a workable legal framework for this would be difficult however.
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Old Feb 26th 2020, 10:22 am
  #220  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I'm inclined to agree, but on the other hand ... one could argue the same for minimum wage. The setting of a minimum wage is in some ways arbitrary and definitely makes a lot of potential jobs uneconomic; cheaper to send work overseas or automate than pay someone a minimum age. So why not eliminate minimum wage and let the market decide - people 'can take it or leave it'. The problem with that argument (which I do believe has SOME merit) is that companies in many situations have a monopoly and could drive wages down to a very low level and still get people to apply, simply because the company has eliminated any alternatives. Walmart, for example, is famous for undercutting every other vendor in town, putting them all out of business, and then becoming the only game in town ... so they could offer very low wages and still have workers. These workers then become dependent on the state for services since their job doesn't provide enough. So that's why I'm in favor of the 'minimum wage' concept. But I do feel that 'some jobs' should be exempt; setting up a workable legal framework for this would be difficult however.
​​​​​​


You couldn't get away with making some jobs exempt the labour market wouldn't allow it. Those jobs exempt would largely go unfilled.


If the large companies were able to drive down wages then no doubt negative inflation would also have an effect on the economy.

However governments and big business love growth gives the perception of a hugely efficient country, negative inflation by wage suppression would destroy this.



I'm all for the abolishment of minimum wage it creates a glass ceiling for many positions..
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Old Feb 27th 2020, 7:13 pm
  #221  
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The cost of "convenience":

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/t...ub-review.html
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Old Mar 30th 2020, 2:12 am
  #222  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
I’m closer to your second scenario. Financially I only need part-time work, but some weeks I choose to do full-time hours. Yes, the flexibility is a great benefit - I enjoy being able to take more time off when my kids are staying with me during school vacations, or I go to visit my daughter (she lives in Texas, so it’s usually a 3-4 day trip).

I have no illusions (unlike some of the more militant Facebook gig group members) that I ‘should’ be making $20-30 an hour for this. But I do think it’s reasonable to expect it to pay, after expenses, around the same as working at a grocery store. The skills and customer service efforts required are very similar, and what I get in flexibility is balanced out by those workers getting benefits for unemployment, healthcare, pensions, etc.

I’m quite surprised that traditional employers haven’t jumped on this cost-saving bandwagon, and declared that all their employees are now independent contractors too. There’s no material difference between the way my gig shopping company works, and a store like Kroger deciding that they’ll have a large pool of pre-screened and pre-trained shelf stockers and checkout operators, who can then all compete for available shifts in a ‘whoever takes the lowest pay offer wins’ Hunger Games-style app scheduling tool.
So, are you planning to join the "strike"? Or any feeling for how many Shoppers will join in?

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Old Mar 30th 2020, 3:21 am
  #223  
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by sid nv View Post
So, are you planning to join the "strike"? Or any feeling for how many Shoppers will join in?
Ha, I’ve been ‘striking’ since the virus started! Originally because I didn’t want to take the hit to my ratings (and therefore jeopardize my 5-star priority status for the best order offers in the future once things settled down)... and also because I simultaneously got a job!

A few days before the world changed, one of the managers at a supermarket I often shop orders in effectively headhunted me, and asked if I was interested in applying to their in-store team for picking the Pickup customer orders. I put my app in online, she had the HR team manually pull it and skip all the tedious interview process, and they did the background check and hired me on a week or so ago.

So I’m now working laughingly “part-time” for a supermarket chain, where they’re scheduling me 40 hours a week - I don’t have time to do gig stuff right now!

But yes, I would otherwise very much be striking tomorrow. Everything the gig companies are PR-hoopla-hoopla saying about supporting and appreciating shoppers is a *colossal* lie. For example, my gig company says it will pay 14 days sick pay... IF you get a positive Covid-19 diagnosis (when it’s utterly impossible to get tested), or if you get a mandatory quarantine notice from - wait for it, NOT a doctor, but from an actual public health authority. So basically ‘never’. It’s a disgraceful posturing policy that’s endangering lives by guaranteeing shoppers will shop sick, while the company is pretending to the public that they’re totally supporting everyone’s health.

Meanwhile, the basic pay for spending 1-2 hours shopping and delivering a full cart or more of groceries during a pandemic, remains a paltry $7-$10. Only now, for funsies, the company is dealing with the sudden surge in demand by combining 2-3 customer orders in one batch, which still only pays the same amount for the shopper. Non-tippers are being batched with decently tipping customers; new customers are in no way being educated to understand that they’re simply just ordering from the actual store, using precarious independent contractors rather than actual hourly paid staff, and that their groceries aren’t coming from some magic warehouse where their ordered items are somehow set aside and reserved for them.

Shoppers are getting killingly 1-star rated for out of stocks, customers are pulling their tips in dissatisfaction,you can’t get hold of shopper support for literally hours if you have issues, and there’s not a sniff of hazard pay despite the ENORMOUS extra revenue being generated for the app company. It’s a giant, giant cluster***k, into which the company is apparently going to recruit 300,000 new shoppers to ‘meet demand’. Demand would be amply met by experienced shoppers WHO ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, and would deliver excellent service for their regular customers and the vulnerable people in our communities, if the pay was good enough and they weren’t being completely hung out to dry.

According to posts on my Facebook groups, HUGE amounts of the long term, regular shoppers have simply stopped offering service in these times. I guess the whole ‘we’re not employees’ is really coming back to bite the gig company, because they can’t in any way compel people to work. Double-edged sword, and all that. Good job they self-define as just a tech company and not a grocery delivery company, else *innocently sarcastic tone* gosh, they’d be in real trouble 😂
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Old Mar 30th 2020, 6:56 am
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
Ha, I’ve been ‘striking’ since the virus started! Originally because I didn’t want to take the hit to my ratings (and therefore jeopardize my 5-star priority status for the best order offers in the future once things settled down)... and also because I simultaneously got a job!

A few days before the world changed, one of the managers at a supermarket I often shop orders in effectively headhunted me, and asked if I was interested in applying to their in-store team for picking the Pickup customer orders. I put my app in online, she had the HR team manually pull it and skip all the tedious interview process, and they did the background check and hired me on a week or so ago.

So I’m now working laughingly “part-time” for a supermarket chain, where they’re scheduling me 40 hours a week - I don’t have time to do gig stuff right now!

But yes, I would otherwise very much be striking tomorrow. Everything the gig companies are PR-hoopla-hoopla saying about supporting and appreciating shoppers is a *colossal* lie. For example, my gig company says it will pay 14 days sick pay... IF you get a positive Covid-19 diagnosis (when it’s utterly impossible to get tested), or if you get a mandatory quarantine notice from - wait for it, NOT a doctor, but from an actual public health authority. So basically ‘never’. It’s a disgraceful posturing policy that’s endangering lives by guaranteeing shoppers will shop sick, while the company is pretending to the public that they’re totally supporting everyone’s health.

Meanwhile, the basic pay for spending 1-2 hours shopping and delivering a full cart or more of groceries during a pandemic, remains a paltry $7-$10. Only now, for funsies, the company is dealing with the sudden surge in demand by combining 2-3 customer orders in one batch, which still only pays the same amount for the shopper. Non-tippers are being batched with decently tipping customers; new customers are in no way being educated to understand that they’re simply just ordering from the actual store, using precarious independent contractors rather than actual hourly paid staff, and that their groceries aren’t coming from some magic warehouse where their ordered items are somehow set aside and reserved for them.

Shoppers are getting killingly 1-star rated for out of stocks, customers are pulling their tips in dissatisfaction,you can’t get hold of shopper support for literally hours if you have issues, and there’s not a sniff of hazard pay despite the ENORMOUS extra revenue being generated for the app company. It’s a giant, giant cluster***k, into which the company is apparently going to recruit 300,000 new shoppers to ‘meet demand’. Demand would be amply met by experienced shoppers WHO ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, and would deliver excellent service for their regular customers and the vulnerable people in our communities, if the pay was good enough and they weren’t being completely hung out to dry.

According to posts on my Facebook groups, HUGE amounts of the long term, regular shoppers have simply stopped offering service in these times. I guess the whole ‘we’re not employees’ is really coming back to bite the gig company, because they can’t in any way compel people to work. Double-edged sword, and all that. Good job they self-define as just a tech company and not a grocery delivery company, else *innocently sarcastic tone* gosh, they’d be in real trouble 😂
Wow - thanks for the detailed update! - and CONGRATS on the job! It's good to see you were recognized and got fast-tracked.
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Old Mar 30th 2020, 5:57 pm
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Default Re: Gizza Job

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
Ha, I’ve been ‘striking’ since the virus started! Originally because I didn’t want to take the hit to my ratings (and therefore jeopardize my 5-star priority status for the best order offers in the future once things settled down)... and also because I simultaneously got a job!

A few days before the world changed, one of the managers at a supermarket I often shop orders in effectively headhunted me, and asked if I was interested in applying to their in-store team for picking the Pickup customer orders. I put my app in online, she had the HR team manually pull it and skip all the tedious interview process, and they did the background check and hired me on a week or so ago.

So I’m now working laughingly “part-time” for a supermarket chain, where they’re scheduling me 40 hours a week - I don’t have time to do gig stuff right now!

But yes, I would otherwise very much be striking tomorrow. Everything the gig companies are PR-hoopla-hoopla saying about supporting and appreciating shoppers is a *colossal* lie. For example, my gig company says it will pay 14 days sick pay... IF you get a positive Covid-19 diagnosis (when it’s utterly impossible to get tested), or if you get a mandatory quarantine notice from - wait for it, NOT a doctor, but from an actual public health authority. So basically ‘never’. It’s a disgraceful posturing policy that’s endangering lives by guaranteeing shoppers will shop sick, while the company is pretending to the public that they’re totally supporting everyone’s health.

Meanwhile, the basic pay for spending 1-2 hours shopping and delivering a full cart or more of groceries during a pandemic, remains a paltry $7-$10. Only now, for funsies, the company is dealing with the sudden surge in demand by combining 2-3 customer orders in one batch, which still only pays the same amount for the shopper. Non-tippers are being batched with decently tipping customers; new customers are in no way being educated to understand that they’re simply just ordering from the actual store, using precarious independent contractors rather than actual hourly paid staff, and that their groceries aren’t coming from some magic warehouse where their ordered items are somehow set aside and reserved for them.

Shoppers are getting killingly 1-star rated for out of stocks, customers are pulling their tips in dissatisfaction,you can’t get hold of shopper support for literally hours if you have issues, and there’s not a sniff of hazard pay despite the ENORMOUS extra revenue being generated for the app company. It’s a giant, giant cluster***k, into which the company is apparently going to recruit 300,000 new shoppers to ‘meet demand’. Demand would be amply met by experienced shoppers WHO ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, and would deliver excellent service for their regular customers and the vulnerable people in our communities, if the pay was good enough and they weren’t being completely hung out to dry.

According to posts on my Facebook groups, HUGE amounts of the long term, regular shoppers have simply stopped offering service in these times. I guess the whole ‘we’re not employees’ is really coming back to bite the gig company, because they can’t in any way compel people to work. Double-edged sword, and all that. Good job they self-define as just a tech company and not a grocery delivery company, else *innocently sarcastic tone* gosh, they’d be in real trouble 😂
This is disappointing. I was hoping to hear you are one of the few picketing Kwik Save, armed with only a shopping cart standing 6 ft apart and singing we'll keep a welcome in the hillside in perfect harmony while the cavalry bear down with truncheons raised. Instead you have gone and got a proper job. Anyway, stay safe and keep the Lysol holstered.

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