Originally Posted by another bloody yank

Those were real issues that came up and were debated, I don't think that's a waste of time or misuse of the system, unlike the recent steroid use in sports thing. Your point seems to be that the fact they were debated at all is indicative of a non-secular influence, I think that's pushing it. BTW, I don't think illegals should be able to vote, they are not citizens, and the gay marriage and flag burning amendment proposals failed, which I see as evidence of somewhat less than the right wing dictatorship that some would have me believe is running things.

I'm not even sure what t-cells are, are they the same as or similar to stem cells? If so, I think this one has some merit as I'm sure there was considerable pressure from religious lobbies, but I bet they weren't exclusively Christian. Actually, that goes for the gay marriage amendment above as well.

I think that's kind of shaky, I don't think most people know enough about the crusades to see the parallel. Most people I know that were in favor of the invasion of Iraq were so because they had been told and believed that Saddam had or was attempting to obtain some sort of WMD and intended to use it. I believe there would have been much less public support for the war initially if there was no talk of a direct threat to the US.

Originally Posted by Elvira

Interesting that people in Europe by and large did not fall for this WMD red herring, don't you think?

Originally Posted by Roland Hulme

I think the fact that nobody - NOBODY - would imagine an athiest president being elected in this day and age suggests that religion has more of a stranglehold in modern America than it did in the 'less civilised' 18th century.

Originally Posted by Sally Redux

Yes. Very noticeable when we visited Turin around that time.

Originally Posted by Elvira

I marched in London on 15 February 2003. "Everyone" - from all strata of society - was there.

Originally Posted by Sally Redux

Up in the Midlands it was not a big issue. I felt we followed the US far more than the continental Europeans did.

Originally Posted by Elvira

Interesting that people in Europe by and large did not fall for this WMD red herring, don't you think?

Originally Posted by Elvira

Blair has a lot to answer for

Originally Posted by another bloody yank

Was that because Europeans aren't as fervently Christian as some in the US?

Originally Posted by Roland Hulme

I think the fact that nobody - NOBODY - would imagine an athiest president being elected in this day and age suggests that religion has more of a stranglehold in modern America than it did in the 'less civilised' 18th century.

Originally Posted by another bloody yank

But the fundamentalist Christian didn't do so hot either...

And who was the atheist president? I really don't know about their religious backgrounds, with the exception of JFK and T.R.

Originally Posted by another bloody yank

Was that because Europeans aren't as fervently Christian as some in the US?

Originally Posted by another bloody yank

But the fundamentalist Christian didn't do so hot either...

And who was the atheist president? I really don't know about their religious backgrounds, with the exception of JFK and T.R.

Originally Posted by Elvira

I think Europeans by and large are a lot less trusting and more cynical than you guys!

Originally Posted by Hiro11

I'd say that the central, defining characteristic of American politics in general is hatred for and distrust of government.

Originally Posted by Hiro11

I'd say that the central, defining characteristic of American politics in general is hatred for and distrust of government.