Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12107779)

It might be better to be told an uncomfortable truth than get sold a bunch of lies that 'things are going to get better', which never come to pass and they all end up screwed anyway.

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 12107751)

Short version: Lie to dumb white people and promise them free ponies, because that's what they deserve.

Originally Posted by dc koop (Post 12107747)

The problem with the "dumb white bit" is that for years those DWs have been living in rust belt towns with closed factories stripped of machinery and equipment, shipped south of the border. Detroit is a disaster. It seems that the Dems just didn't know or care that these disenfranchised workers existed. The leadership enclosed itself in a bubble of PC liberal agendas that had no connection to what should have been it's priority, Job training for the unemployed in skills currently in demand would have been one of them, working to help college students pay for tuition and ease the crippling repayments on student loans would have been another but the years just went by and the Obama administration contented itself with being satisfied with the rise in the stock market and a sizeable drop in unemployment but employment statistics mean nothing if jobs that are being created hardly pay decent salaries.

Trump was clever. He tapped into a very large segment of the population which feels that it's been left out of the world of the global market with all the prosperity it's brought to some but not to others.

The Dems need new blood. We don't need to hear Nancy Pelosi's tired old rhetoric. She had her chance for years as House Speaker, Senate Majority Leader and lately Senate Minority Leader.

It's only the Democrat Party's failure to deliver for years that caused people struggling to make ends meet believe in a new Messiah like Trump who of course may or may not be able to deliver but for the moment he has his chance

Originally Posted by dc koop (Post 12107762)

There are people who live in those towns whose families go back generations. it's not so simple to pack up and leave, move to other parts of the US in hopes of better prospects.

Originally Posted by zargof (Post 12107782)

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 12107788)

There are people in Mexico who have little choice but to leave for better prospects, and you have no sympathy for them at all.

And the Japanese are supposed to build another 500 auto plants in Nowheresburg that they don't need because it's tough to move. How does that make any sense?

Originally Posted by Ebonhawke (Post 12107785)

The big 'if' (and it's a big if) is if the Democrats actually take a serious reflection on what happened during this election cycle, and act on those reflections.

I have read some articles where Democratic politicians have, rightly, blamed the loss on focusing primarily on people who would donate significant sums of money to the campaign, rather than on actually addressing the concerns of the voting populace.

I've also seen some articles where Democrats have blamed the loss on Comey's letters, fake news stories etc. Blaming external forces won't drive any improvements to the approach that the Democrats took in this election - they'll essentially run the same process in 2020, and hoping that their candidate beats the Republican candidate - this shouldn't inspire confidence in the Democratic Party.

If this pessimists about this Presidency are correct, there will be significant opportunities for the Democratic Party to gain, both in 2018, and in 2020. However the Democrats will have to approach these opportunities with clear initiatives to address voter concerns, rather than "We told you these guys would suck, check out a website to see how we'll fix it" by people who are perceived as having vision for the country, but without the perceived baggage that Clinton possessed.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12107794)

One thing I kept hearing about throughout the election campaigns, mostly from Sanders, but I think Trump touched on it as well, is infrastructure. It's no secret that a great deal of roads, bridges and other structures all over the country are in need of repair. Surely if someone is willing to invest in improving this infrastructure and putting measures in place to keep it properly maintained, that kind of a program would generate plenty of local jobs all over the country.

Or am I talking out of my arse again?

Originally Posted by dc koop (Post 12107762)

There are people who live in those towns whose families go back generations. it's not so simple to pack up and leave, move to other parts of the US in hopes of better prospects. Perhaps if the politicians who govern these rusty States got their asses moving and did their jobs by working full blast to attract investment from businesses all over the world then this would be a better solution. Half the jobs in the auto industry now come from Toyota, Honda and Hyundai who opened assembly plants in towns that were in the economic doldrums

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12107794)

One thing I kept hearing about throughout the election campaigns, mostly from Sanders, but I think Trump touched on it as well, is infrastructure. It's no secret that a great deal of roads, bridges and other structures all over the country are in need of repair. Surely if someone is willing to invest in improving this infrastructure and putting measures in place to keep it properly maintained, that kind of a program would generate plenty of local jobs all over the country.

Or am I talking out of my arse again?

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 12107802)

Voter turnout was down.

Trump received fewer votes than milquetoast elitist Mitt Romney.

Trump was so offensive to Republicans that he helped the Libertarians.

Exit polls showed that a significant percentage of Trump voters don't even like him.

This was not a working class uprising. This was Democratic voters not bothering to show up. The key to Democrats winning elections is turnout, and they did not have quite enough of it (although they did manage to get more votes.)

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 12107814)

Building infrastructure is nice and I'm all for it, but it isn't going to create many new jobs.

Trump is talking about pulling out of NAFTA and slapping tariffs on imports. Putting aside the fact that this won't happen, this is a completely unrealistic way to manage an economic system. The US thrives on cheap imports, and living standards would fall if these pie-in-the-sky ideas are attempted in earnest.

Originally Posted by Ebonhawke (Post 12107817)

If you're a Democratic strategist and you're blaming the loss on an unenthusiastic voter base, then you're still exposing yourself to a great unknown in 2020 - Trump may not be the Republican nominee in 2020, and you may be facing uphill battles because the Republican party seems to be improving their voter analytics and GOTV processes, as well as you can be sure that the amount of fake stories and media trolls will continue to try and paint the Democratic party in a certain light.

Originally Posted by Ebonhawke (Post 12107831)

If he follows through on his rhetoric and bows out of NAFTA and the TPP, slaps tariffs on products made in China and in Mexico, there will be potentially economic reprisals.

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 12107814)

Building infrastructure is nice and I'm all for it, but it isn't going to create many new jobs.

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 12107814)

Trump is talking about pulling out of NAFTA and slapping tariffs on imports. Putting aside the fact that this won't happen, this is a completely unrealistic way to manage an economic system. The US thrives on cheap imports, and living standards would fall if these pie-in-the-sky ideas are attempted in earnest.