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Oakvillian Aug 5th 2016 7:16 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12020782)
I guess I must be missing something , can someone explain ?

Trump's tax returns : (a) would not show his net worth (b) I was unaware that individual charitable contributions would be shown (c) would not show what he made through ownership of a C corp/non pass through entities, so any stated income could be very low compared to profit he made through corporations he owns.

I am scratching my head what is it people believe his tax returns would reveal ? Also I wonder whether general media commentators realize the above- or is there some reason Trump's tax returns show different information than other tax returns ?

On the other hand, if one just wishes to score political points, perhaps filings with the Treasury department on foreign bank accounts could be quite interesting.

He should show his tax returns because there is an expectation that a candidate for President show his tax returns. Not a rule or a law, it's true - but an expectation nonetheless. By not showing his tax return, he (nobody else; just Trump himself) has made the whole thing into a bigger issue - precisely because people (and not just the "left wing" media, but several conservative commentators also) are wondering what it is he is endeavouring to conceal by not sharing his return.

If, as you assert, there is nothing in them that would give cause for raised eyebrows, then why doesn't he follow accepted practice and open them up for public scrutiny? Especially, as dc koop pointed out, since he made such a big thing over Mittens' returns last time round. We might be left thinking that maybe Mr Trump is just a little bit hypocritical over this issue, no?

Jerseygirl Aug 5th 2016 7:53 am

Re: 2016 Election
 
What a liar and she is still lying...I didn't lie - I 'short-circuited'.

scrubbedexpat099 Aug 5th 2016 8:55 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12020819)
What a liar and she is still lying...I didn't lie - I 'short-circuited'.

480v of short circuit would help.

lizzyq Aug 5th 2016 11:21 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12020690)
Yes, and as my granny would say, if he had a square arsehole, he'd shit bricks ...

So he's really a wombat?

anotherlimey Aug 5th 2016 11:36 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12020782)
I guess I must be missing something , can someone explain ?

Trump's tax returns : (a) would not show his net worth (b) I was unaware that individual charitable contributions would be shown (c) would not show what he made through ownership of a C corp/non pass through entities, so any stated income could be very low compared to profit he made through corporations he owns.

I am scratching my head what is it people believe his tax returns would reveal ? Also I wonder whether general media commentators realize the above- or is there some reason Trump's tax returns show different information than other tax returns ?

On the other hand, if one just wishes to score political points, perhaps filings with the Treasury department on foreign bank accounts could be quite interesting.

I think you do list charities on a tax return, at least I thought I had to when I did it.

I assume he pays little tax anyway.

moneypenny20 Aug 5th 2016 11:36 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by lizzyq (Post 12020904)
So he's really a wombat?

That's so offensive to Wombats. They are awesome creatures.

lizzyq Aug 5th 2016 11:40 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 (Post 12020906)
That's so offensive to Wombats. They are awesome creatures.

But they do have cuboidal droppings

Leslie Aug 5th 2016 12:02 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by zargof (Post 12020584)
I believe the Trumper defence for this is that it's fine because European immigrants aren't the problem.

Trump fans ignore Melania immigration issue — because ‘Europeans coming here’ is OK

The sad thing is that, these people who are making public racist remarks, because of their love of Trump and hatred of other races, Donald Trump would piss on them if they were on fire.

Leslie Aug 5th 2016 12:25 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Anian (Post 12020608)
A wall is just a dumb solution that wouldn't work. They can get over or under it really easily. If potential illegal immigrants can get to a section without a wall currently, then they can get to it while carrying a light ladder. or you can go to a town on the Mexican side of the wall where someone has built a tunnel under it. Just a huge waste of money.

Building bridges is about using an eager workforce to do jobs that Americans aren't doing. It's not about offending people, that's just a smokescreen put up by rightwingers to make the actions sound stupid because you've changed the reasons for doing it into something that is stupid.

There is already a wall. If people were serious about stopping illegal immigration, they would jail the people that employ them. That will never happen though.

The Great Wall of America - Photo Essays - TIME

Leslie Aug 5th 2016 12:27 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by dakota44 (Post 12020671)
I think they figured out from the section of wall already built...it didn't help. They just went to tunneling.

The drug dealers use hydraulic lifts to send their cars over the wall. :rofl:

SultanOfSwing Aug 5th 2016 4:36 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by lizzyq (Post 12020904)
So he's really a wombat?

I forgot that they shit dice.

morpeth Aug 5th 2016 7:41 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by dakota44 (Post 12020801)
Every corporation he owns is under an umbrella company. (not actual umbrellas...just in case you are wondering ;))

As such they all show on his returns including how much he personally receives from each. Not to mention any debts/loans being declared for interest deductions. Some of which are in Russia.

Donald J. Trump established The Trump Organization in 1980 as the umbrella company for all of his real estate operations and corporate affiliates. In addition to the numerous luxury residential real estate developments in New York City, Mr. Trump's holdings include superior office buildings, hotels, casinos, golf courses, recreational facilities, a modeling and talent agency and an international beauty pageant organization. The quintessential businessman, Mr. Trump has always been committed to taking a personal and direct involvement in all aspects of his projects.

Read more: The Trump Organization - Company Profile, Information, Business Description, History, Background Information on The Trump Organization

As far as how much tax he pays I feel this is only to score a political point, again and again,I would not expect anyone in that income bracket to not use the current tax code to reduce what income tax they pay. I am more i9nterested in either candidate proposing an overhaul of the tax code such that a fair effective tax rate is in place.

Yes how much income , probably dividends , he receives will be shown, but like any business person he will manage how much dividends will be paid to reduce double taxation ( i.e. once on corporate profits then on dividends).

Investments in "pass through" entities , common in real estate, a bit more complicated to assess from a tax return , and certainly loans to such entities (let alone corporations) will not be generally discussed at the level of information to determine where the loans come from. I had income from a pass through entity for several years, there was nothing to disclose where debt the entity incurred came from. Add to the mix most likely Trump has engaged in some estate planning, and also structured his assets for liability protection - it is very doubtful to me that his tax returns will show many of the items the media or sections of the public believe it will show.

morpeth Aug 5th 2016 7:52 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 12020804)
He should show his tax returns because there is an expectation that a candidate for President show his tax returns. Not a rule or a law, it's true - but an expectation nonetheless. By not showing his tax return, he (nobody else; just Trump himself) has made the whole thing into a bigger issue - precisely because people (and not just the "left wing" media, but several conservative commentators also) are wondering what it is he is endeavouring to conceal by not sharing his return.

If, as you assert, there is nothing in them that would give cause for raised eyebrows, then why doesn't he follow accepted practice and open them up for public scrutiny? Especially, as dc koop pointed out, since he made such a big thing over Mittens' returns last time round. We might be left thinking that maybe Mr Trump is just a little bit hypocritical over this issue, no?

I know very few average people in discussing the candidates raise the issue about their tax returns, and in any case looking at posts on this thread there seems to be very little understanding of what a tax return shows anyway.

Raised eyebrows from whom ? The general media and those already against Trump just want some talking points to support their existing antagonism against Trump, his supporters could care less. I actually find it amusing the media's obsession with how he doesn't follow accepted practice, people are sick of the status quo and by doing so his core supporters love it.

Trump just shoots from the hip as we all know- he can criticize Romney one day for not releasing his tax returns, then not release his own, no core philosophy involved, just how he feels at the moment.

morpeth Aug 5th 2016 8:09 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Anian (Post 12020608)
A wall is just a dumb solution that wouldn't work. They can get over or under it really easily. If potential illegal immigrants can get to a section without a wall currently, then they can get to it while carrying a light ladder. or you can go to a town on the Mexican side of the wall where someone has built a tunnel under it. Just a huge waste of money.

Building bridges is about using an eager workforce to do jobs that Americans aren't doing. It's not about offending people, that's just a smokescreen put up by rightwingers to make the actions sound stupid because you've changed the reasons for doing it into something that is stupid.

If it is good policy to let in an eager workforce as you write, then why not have such a policy allowing free entry, and end the suffering those illegally crossing the border go through ?

As far as American's not doing same work there is an argument that reducing the supply of lower skilled or educated people coming into to the country in an era of stagnant real wages , would over time raise incomes such that more American's would do such work

But controlling the border is common sense, the wall isn't a total solution but it would reduce the flow of illegal immigrants, as well as his policy of increasing the number or border agents. Tunnels can be addressed technically, but it is more expensive for illegals to use tunnels in payments to "coyotes". And a controlled border would probably reduce the flow of guns going into Mexico.

morpeth Aug 5th 2016 8:17 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 12020918)
There is already a wall. If people were serious about stopping illegal immigration, they would jail the people that employ them. That will never happen though.

The Great Wall of America - Photo Essays - TIME

I agree completely, while there are there are e-verify systems in place for larger corporations, many employers get away with employing illegals based on supposed " papers". It seems to me that it is so easy to get false paperwork it makes me wonder whether for dealing with illegals, or terrorists, if perhaps this is an area that needs to look at.

I remember years ago when I lived in California if someone was using someone else's social security number, it would take on average 2 to 3 years before communication received from social security administration of a mismatch. Also, saw illegals on the farms treated in ways few American's would be expected to put up with- if American's don't want to pick grapes, or pay enough for grapes that Americans would pick grapes, maybe they should eat less grapes !


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