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Old Oct 8th 2015 | 6:27 am
  #1651  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

I don't think any of the current Republican candidates are actually in a place to win the presidency, regardless of what congress does. It feels like the last election, where everyone was saying that it was going to be close but the GOP didn't stand a chance from the start. Unless they can actually get a solid plan in place that isn't just lowering taxes and defunding Planned parenthood, they just won't get near enough votes.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 7:02 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Audibly crying?

The Race for House Speaker Has Republicans "Audibly Crying" | Mother Jones
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 9:57 am
  #1653  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
The only reason there will be a shutdown is if the Republicans choose to go down the road of causing one.
No, it takes two. Nothing would force Obama to veto a multi-trillion dollar budget simply because it fails to finance one or two of his pet projects. Otherwise you are reading the Constitution to hold that the primary function of Congress is to approve the President's budget proposals. The media has created this notion.

Now if we had a Democrat-controlled Congress and a Republican President and he vetoed a budget that failed to provide funds for the NRA's Eddie Eagle and Project ChildSafe programmes - it would of course be the President's fault for the shutdown, not the Democrats in Congress. Fault only runs one way.

Last edited by FlaviusAetius; Oct 8th 2015 at 11:42 am.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 11:08 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Why Kevin McCarthy’s Speaker Bid Was Doomed | FiveThirtyEight

Sharing this more for the "five ring circus" figure rather than the discussion of McCarthy. An interesting way to categorize the candidates.

 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 11:08 am
  #1655  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
No, it takes two. Nothing would force Obama to veto a multi-trillion dollar budget simply because it fails to finance one or two of his pet projects. Otherwise you are reading the Constitution to hold that the sole function of Congress is to approve the President's budget proposals. The media has created this notion.
Debt ceiling? That's nothing about financing Obama's "pet projects".

And, anyway, which "pet projects" are you referring to bearing in mind that the right wing crazies want to shut down the government over funding something that has been consistently funded for decades and thus can hardly fall under the "Obama's pet project" banner.

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
Now if we had a Democrat-controlled Congress and a Republican President and he vetoed a budget that failed to provide funds for the NRA's Eddie Eagle and Project ChildSafe programmes - it would of course be the President's fault for the shutdown, not the Democrats in Congress. Fault only runs one way.
Back to the strawmen I see...

Last edited by Giantaxe; Oct 8th 2015 at 11:13 am.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:01 pm
  #1656  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
Why Kevin McCarthy’s Speaker Bid Was Doomed | FiveThirtyEight

Sharing this more for the "five ring circus" figure rather than the discussion of McCarthy. An interesting way to categorize the candidates.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wo...ng?w=610&h=613
Bush is no moderate. He's only moderate in comparison to those who are even further to the right.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:07 pm
  #1657  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
Bush is no moderate. He's only moderate in comparison to those who are even further to the right.
It's hard to say if any of those four are truly moderate, a matter of degrees perhaps.

As an aside, the McCarthy issue rumbles on, many people now saying he dropped out due to a rumored affair rather than a sudden wave of honesty over Benghazi. Party of family values indeed!

Kevin McCarthy's Exit Came After Personal Threat Over Affair Allegations
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:12 pm
  #1658  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
It's hard to say if any of those four are truly moderate, a matter of degrees perhaps.
These days, a "moderate Republican" is one who doesn't use hyperbole and stomp his feet about minorities and immigrants.

It's hard to believe that there was once a time when there were liberals in the Republican party.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:19 pm
  #1659  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP

It's hard to believe that there was once a time when there were liberals in the Republican party.
To be fair you could say the opposite about the Dems, lots of things have changed.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:22 pm
  #1660  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Boiler
To be fair you could say the opposite about the Dems, lots of things have changed.
There are still some Blue Dog Democrats.

There are no longer any liberals in the GOP and virtually no moderates.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:27 pm
  #1661  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Another result of Tuesday's election: fewer 'Blue Dog' Democrats - LA Times

The U.S. Senate just got a lot more conservative. But its Democratic caucus just got a lot more liberal.

How’s that again?

The little-examined flip side to this week’s Republican victories is that they swept out many of the last remaining “blue dog” Democrats in the Senate – the centrists from conservative-leaning states who leavened a caucus dominated by urban liberals.

Among the Senate’s most moderate Democrats, two lost their seats on Tuesday: Mark Pryor of Arkansas and Kay Hagan of North Carolina. Two more appear likely to lose once the counting is over, Mark Begich of Alaska and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana. Another, Max Baucus of Montana, retired.

As a result, the Senate – once Washington’s last refuge for centrist politicians – increasingly resembles the polarized, partisan House of Representatives. There are fewer and fewer moderates in either party; the vast majority of senators are either conservative Republicans or liberal Democrats.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:31 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

The difference being that centrist Democrats lost to Republicans, whereas the centrist Republicans lost in the primaries to more right wing Republicans. I don't think we're seeing centrist Democrats lose in primaries to more left-wing Democrats.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:40 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Debt ceiling? That's nothing about financing Obama's "pet projects".

And, anyway, which "pet projects" are you referring to bearing in mind that the right wing crazies want to shut down the government over funding something that has been consistently funded for decades and thus can hardly fall under the "Obama's pet project" banner.



Back to the strawmen I see...
Well, a first pet project would include closing Guantanamo and moving the detainees to Colorado. That closing and transfer would require funds that Congress could well not include in the budget. Clearly the President could take the view that as 2016 will be the last budget he controls, this pet project is so important to his legacy that he would veto a budget that didn't include those funds.

For the second, we're both thinking of PP. The fact that it has been funded for decades is, ipso facto, no reason that it must continue to be funded until the fall of the republic. Those same funds could be transferred to other women's health care providers who would undoubtedly jump in to fill the vacuum.

But PP is a sacred cow to his constituency and would, therefore, properly be considered a pet project. Obama has already threatened to shut down the government if he doesn't get his way on this issue.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:48 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
Well, a first pet project would include closing Guantanamo and moving the detainees to Colorado. That closing and transfer would require funds that Congress could well not include in the budget. Clearly the President could take the view that as 2016 will be the last budget he controls, this pet project is so important to his legacy that he would veto a budget that didn't include those funds.
Has he requested funds for this? If not, it's moot.

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
For the second, we're both thinking of PP. The fact that it has been funded for decades is, ipso facto, no reason that it must continue to be funded until the fall of the republic. Those same funds could be transferred to other women's health care providers who would undoubtedly jump in to fill the vacuum.
I haven't seen any attempt by the Republicans to ensure that others fill PP's shoes in the event PP is defunded.

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
But PP is a sacred cow to his constituency and would, therefore, properly be considered a pet project. Obama has already threatened to shut down the government if he doesn't get his way on this issue.
There's been a consensus for decades that PP provides vital services and should be funded. What has changed is not that it is a "pet project of Obama's constituency", but that a small anti-abortion minority on the right of the Republican party want to defund it based on doctored videos. Never mind that the only federal funding for abortion is for those raped, victims of incest or those whose lives are in danger. Such women hardly constitute a "pet project"....

Last edited by Giantaxe; Oct 8th 2015 at 12:50 pm.
 
Old Oct 8th 2015 | 12:57 pm
  #1665  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
The difference being that centrist Democrats lost to Republicans, whereas the centrist Republicans lost in the primaries to more right wing Republicans. I don't think we're seeing centrist Democrats lose in primaries to more left-wing Democrats.
Off the top of my head De Blasio? Can not say I follow the primaries that much.

In Colorado there has been a move left in the Democrat areas, now that would be a paper in itself and I am not sure one I want to write. Certainly it seems much harder for centralists in either party to prevail.

My impression is that is due to many areas the primaries govern who gets in, certainly that was the case when I lived in Boulder County. So essentially the person who appealed most to the activists got in.
 


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