Originally Posted by elspeth sinclair

Where have you been? The poor young cows often with their female calves are driven around to primtive village squares where they are tormented by kids of all ages with wooden swords in enclosed spaces watched by proud parents who have paid for the priviledge. The highlight of this torment is when a young bullock is put in wearing a crown of lighted candles and runs berserk as the hot wax runs into his eyes. Any cow or calve who tries to escape to the safety of the pen is severly beaten with long canes by their keepers and are left with blood streaked sides. This was still happening in Oliva when I left 7 years ago. Several young men have been killed over the years so there is some kind of justice.

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly

Sorry elspeth,I should have made myself clear that I was referring to the UK.
I am fully aware of the points you mention regarding Spain,..not nice at all,...so I will just happily settle for being a British stud,thank you very much.

Originally Posted by elspeth sinclair

Where have you been? The poor young cows often with their female calves are driven around to primtive village squares where they are tormented by kids of all ages with wooden swords in enclosed spaces watched by proud parents who have paid for the priviledge. The highlight of this torment is when a young bullock is put in wearing a crown of lighted candles and runs berserk as the hot wax runs into his eyes. Any cow or calve who tries to escape to the safety of the pen is severly beaten with long canes by their keepers and are left with blood streaked sides. This was still happening in Oliva when I left 7 years ago. Several young men have been killed over the years so there is some kind of justice.

Originally Posted by elspeth sinclair

Well I'm glad we sorted that out .I'm getting a bit hot under my collar today I'll just reach for the valium. This thread has made me realise that there's a lot I don't like about Spain so I'm removing my rose tinted glasses.

Originally Posted by Lenox

Those giant tortoises get about 150 years. It probably passes rather slowly too.

Originally Posted by cricketman

I agree that these kind of fiestas that torment animals should be banned - they are much worse than bullfighting

But get things is perspective a minute. There are probably 20-50 villages in Spain who still do things like this each year. So maybe 200 animals who are tormented out of the 100,000s in Spain. Still it is 200 too many, you are right.

So if you came back as a bull or cow in Spain you'd have a pretty good chance of having a half decent life.

Although if you are a cow bred for meat you only get to live about a year anyway, no matter what country you are in. Chickens get to live 40 days.

Originally Posted by cricketman

Well I dont know Elspeth.

The NGOs estimate that the UK and US have killed 600,000 innocent civilians in Iraq. Hardly civilised and it eats much more on my conscious than a few animals getting wax in their eyes

Originally Posted by elspeth sinclair

There are many more than 20-50 small villages and towns of up to 40,000 inhabitants in Valencia alone using acts of cruelty as parts of their fiestas so we must be considering thousands of towns and villages throughout Spain. You'll have to get out of Madrid. As a retired crofter I have to say I've never heard of cows raised for meat only bull calves which in Scotland are killed at three years old for prime quality beef. Old cows after 10 to 15 years as breeding cows are turned in to mince or animal food. In Spain they kill their beef too young hence tasteless meat.

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe

Cricketman has stated several times he lives on the CDS (and Barcelona before that). Why ask him to "get out of Madrid????"

You have to be very careful trusting to the Scottish beef label. I've no idea how prevalent it is, but I've read that certain operators transport cows to Scotland a few months before slaughter, so they can get a higher price for the Scottish beef label.

Originally Posted by elspeth sinclair

What a lot of shite all cattle have passports showing place of birth and granny's middle name before they can be shipped or killed.

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe

If anyone's consistently spouted "shite" this morning it's the poster who's claimed that Cricketman is based in Madrid. people on the dole don't want to get a job, and that casual labour jobs paying 8-10 Euros an hour are common in Spain (although to be fair they may be where you are based).

Be that as it may, I accept that cattle in Scotland may need proof of place of birth (doubt there's anything regarding grandma tho ) but does anyone using a butcher ever ask for proof? Just interested like. The best steak I've ever had was in an Argentinian restaurant in Madrid, but I've no idea whether the meat came from an Argentinian (or even Scottish) cow,

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly

You seem to be forgetting that a lot of cattle are raised for bull-beef these days,so they don't lose their credentials

Originally Posted by elspeth sinclair

Didn't I read that the sportsman said he had met all those Argentinians in Madrid where he worked as someone important due to his excellent state education and important degree. I shouldn't have had that glass of beer yesterday . Watch out for the high hormone levels in Argentine beef, test before you taste.