Toros - tide turning?
#1
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,890
Toros - tide turning?
On holiday in Madrid & Galicia over Xmas I noticed newspaper articles and talk in the media about about Catalunya taking an anti-bullfighting stance after recent debate, is this just a 'we are not Spain' position yet again or are they genuinely concerned about animal cruelty issues?
In your part of Spain what opinions have you heard?
When I was a student in Pamplona back in the 80s I wouldn't say I liked it but did get to understand the attraction of bullfighting. For what it's worth my view now is that it's an appalling 'spectacle', I won't call it 'form of art' or even 'sport' although you can read about it in Marca and when I visted the footie part of their website last weekend a video of the Jose Tomas goring popped up at me!
What's the latest on his condition?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...nia-jose-tomas
In your part of Spain what opinions have you heard?
When I was a student in Pamplona back in the 80s I wouldn't say I liked it but did get to understand the attraction of bullfighting. For what it's worth my view now is that it's an appalling 'spectacle', I won't call it 'form of art' or even 'sport' although you can read about it in Marca and when I visted the footie part of their website last weekend a video of the Jose Tomas goring popped up at me!
What's the latest on his condition?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...nia-jose-tomas
Last edited by expatasia; Apr 29th 2010 at 11:42 pm.
#2
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Toros - tide turning?
On holiday in Madrid & Galicia over Xmas I noticed newspaper articles and talk in the media about about Catalunya taking an anti-bullfighting stance after recent debate, is this just a 'we are not Spain' position yet again or are they genuinely concerned about animal cruelty issues?
In your part of Spain what opinions have you heard?
When I was a student in Pamplona back in the 80s I wouldn't say I liked it but did get to understand the attraction of bullfighting. For what it's worth my view now is that it's an appalling 'spectacle', I won't call it 'form of art' or even 'sport' although you can read about it in Marca and when I visted the footie part of their website last weekend a video of the Jose Tomas goring popped up at me!
What's the latest on his condition?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...nia-jose-tomas
In your part of Spain what opinions have you heard?
When I was a student in Pamplona back in the 80s I wouldn't say I liked it but did get to understand the attraction of bullfighting. For what it's worth my view now is that it's an appalling 'spectacle', I won't call it 'form of art' or even 'sport' although you can read about it in Marca and when I visted the footie part of their website last weekend a video of the Jose Tomas goring popped up at me!
What's the latest on his condition?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...nia-jose-tomas
Parts of Spain have never been into bullfighting, just depends on the region. In Catalunya it's thought of as a Madrid thing or for the many tens of thousands of migrants that came from the South.
Bull fighting isnt as popular as it used to be, you can see that because most of the village bull rings are hardly ever used. However, it still has an important core following in Andalucia and Castilla/Madrid.
Let them get on with it I say, it is an artform even though the death of an animal is involved, I've been convinced that the death of the bull is an honourable death rather than a violent one . If and when they decide not to do it anymore should be up to the people who do it.
#4
Yaaarp
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Trying to get the hell outta Spain!
Posts: 1,354
Re: Toros - tide turning?
Jose Tomas has gotten better, he's not going to die, but they say this kind of injury normally ends their career.
Parts of Spain have never been into bullfighting, just depends on the region. In Catalunya it's thought of as a Madrid thing or for the many tens of thousands of migrants that came from the South.
Bull fighting isnt as popular as it used to be, you can see that because most of the village bull rings are hardly ever used. However, it still has an important core following in Andalucia and Castilla/Madrid.
Let them get on with it I say, it is an artform even though the death of an animal is involved, I've been convinced that the death of the bull is an honourable death rather than a violent one . If and when they decide not to do it anymore should be up to the people who do it.
Parts of Spain have never been into bullfighting, just depends on the region. In Catalunya it's thought of as a Madrid thing or for the many tens of thousands of migrants that came from the South.
Bull fighting isnt as popular as it used to be, you can see that because most of the village bull rings are hardly ever used. However, it still has an important core following in Andalucia and Castilla/Madrid.
Let them get on with it I say, it is an artform even though the death of an animal is involved, I've been convinced that the death of the bull is an honourable death rather than a violent one . If and when they decide not to do it anymore should be up to the people who do it.
#5
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Toros - tide turning?
There is enough intolerance in the world. Let them get on with it, if a particular region votes for a ban on bullfighting then great, if not, then great aswell
#6
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Toros - tide turning?
You're entitled to your view and me on mine. There are so many worse things going on in the world which nobody talks about banning.
There is enough intolerance in the world. Let them get on with it, if a particular region votes for a ban on bullfighting then great, if not, then great aswell
There is enough intolerance in the world. Let them get on with it, if a particular region votes for a ban on bullfighting then great, if not, then great aswell
There is no heroism in any conflict where the outcome is almost inevitable, unless it is applied to the bull.
However, Cricketman has a point. The excuse that there are worse things going on is a spurious one, a bit like saying 'There's folk worse off than you', which basically means 'Screw you I don't care'.
Banning it outright would IMO simply popularise it with certain people who would then hold it up as something to be defended if you are a patriot. Not methinks what we need.
The best way is to gradually bend public opinion towards the point where it is no longer seen as positive, and then it will slowly die the death.
I like the people who run and jump over the bulls. Now that takes guts.
#7
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Toros - tide turning?
Well, first off, Madridboy has it bang to rights. I watched a matador who had obviously had enough training to qualify as a lousy butcher, stick the bull half a dozen times with his sword and it just stood there daring him to have another go and show just how useless he was.
There is no heroism in any conflict where the outcome is almost inevitable, unless it is applied to the bull.
However, Cricketman has a point. The excuse that there are worse things going on is a spurious one, a bit like saying 'There's folk worse off than you', which basically means 'Screw you I don't care'.
Banning it outright would IMO simply popularise it with certain people who would then hold it up as something to be defended if you are a patriot. Not methinks what we need.
The best way is to gradually bend public opinion towards the point where it is no longer seen as positive, and then it will slowly die the death.
I like the people who run and jump over the bulls. Now that takes guts.
There is no heroism in any conflict where the outcome is almost inevitable, unless it is applied to the bull.
However, Cricketman has a point. The excuse that there are worse things going on is a spurious one, a bit like saying 'There's folk worse off than you', which basically means 'Screw you I don't care'.
Banning it outright would IMO simply popularise it with certain people who would then hold it up as something to be defended if you are a patriot. Not methinks what we need.
The best way is to gradually bend public opinion towards the point where it is no longer seen as positive, and then it will slowly die the death.
I like the people who run and jump over the bulls. Now that takes guts.
Fair enough, but a lot of foreigners miss the point about bullfighting. The matador/torero is not meant to be a hero. Noone sees him as a hero. In fact this isnt even a fight (in Spanish language). Bullfighting is an English word which implies a winner and loser, there is no such thing in the "corridas de toros" i.e. literally bull running!
Corridas de toros are about nobility and art in the journey to the death. It can be seen as a dance of death where the toreros/picadores etc help the bull on its way to die a noble and celebrated death.
A much more noble and celebrated death than being electrically stunned in a windowless cowshed or growing up in a 50 square cm prison and never seeing natural light in the 45 days of torrid, insipid torturous life. Yet still 90% of us all eat animal meat without worrying about all that.
People should grow up a bit!
#8
Re: Toros - tide turning?
Well, first off, Madridboy has it bang to rights. I watched a matador who had obviously had enough training to qualify as a lousy butcher, stick the bull half a dozen times with his sword and it just stood there daring him to have another go and show just how useless he was.
There is no heroism in any conflict where the outcome is almost inevitable, unless it is applied to the bull.
However, Cricketman has a point. The excuse that there are worse things going on is a spurious one, a bit like saying 'There's folk worse off than you', which basically means 'Screw you I don't care'.
Banning it outright would IMO simply popularise it with certain people who would then hold it up as something to be defended if you are a patriot. Not methinks what we need.
The best way is to gradually bend public opinion towards the point where it is no longer seen as positive, and then it will slowly die the death.
I like the people who run and jump over the bulls. Now that takes guts.
There is no heroism in any conflict where the outcome is almost inevitable, unless it is applied to the bull.
However, Cricketman has a point. The excuse that there are worse things going on is a spurious one, a bit like saying 'There's folk worse off than you', which basically means 'Screw you I don't care'.
Banning it outright would IMO simply popularise it with certain people who would then hold it up as something to be defended if you are a patriot. Not methinks what we need.
The best way is to gradually bend public opinion towards the point where it is no longer seen as positive, and then it will slowly die the death.
I like the people who run and jump over the bulls. Now that takes guts.
#9
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Toros - tide turning?
Not to mention the millions of tons of CO2 they release into the air each year.
What would you rather see, 2 hours of a car going round a track or that 10,000 children are given access to clean drinking water?
If human beings were good people we wouldn't live in such a cr*p and injust world.
#10
Re: Toros - tide turning?
You could say the same about Formula 1 racing. The amount of money that they spend each year. If they spent that on child poverty, then could save the lives of 1 million children a year.
Not to mention the millions of tons of CO2 they release into the air each year.
What would you rather see, 2 hours of a car going round a track or that 10,000 children are given access to clean drinking water?
If human beings were good people we wouldn't live in such a cr*p and injust world.
Not to mention the millions of tons of CO2 they release into the air each year.
What would you rather see, 2 hours of a car going round a track or that 10,000 children are given access to clean drinking water?
If human beings were good people we wouldn't live in such a cr*p and injust world.
#11
Re: Toros - tide turning?
You could say the same about Formula 1 racing. The amount of money that they spend each year. If they spent that on child poverty, then could save the lives of 1 million children a year.
Not to mention the millions of tons of CO2 they release into the air each year.
What would you rather see, 2 hours of a car going round a track or that 10,000 children are given access to clean drinking water?
If human beings were good people we wouldn't live in such a cr*p and injust world.
Not to mention the millions of tons of CO2 they release into the air each year.
What would you rather see, 2 hours of a car going round a track or that 10,000 children are given access to clean drinking water?
If human beings were good people we wouldn't live in such a cr*p and injust world.
Yes shocking....let hope each new generation becomes more caring to others and not focus on money, sport and big business.
#12
Re: Toros - tide turning?
Fair enough, but a lot of foreigners miss the point about bullfighting. The matador/torero is not meant to be a hero. Noone sees him as a hero. In fact this isnt even a fight (in Spanish language). Bullfighting is an English word which implies a winner and loser, there is no such thing in the "corridas de toros" i.e. literally bull running!
Corridas de toros are about nobility and art in the journey to the death. It can be seen as a dance of death where the toreros/picadores etc help the bull on its way to die a noble and celebrated death.
A much more noble and celebrated death than being electrically stunned in a windowless cowshed or growing up in a 50 square cm prison and never seeing natural light in the 45 days of torrid, insipid torturous life. Yet still 90% of us all eat animal meat without worrying about all that.
People should grow up a bit!
Corridas de toros are about nobility and art in the journey to the death. It can be seen as a dance of death where the toreros/picadores etc help the bull on its way to die a noble and celebrated death.
A much more noble and celebrated death than being electrically stunned in a windowless cowshed or growing up in a 50 square cm prison and never seeing natural light in the 45 days of torrid, insipid torturous life. Yet still 90% of us all eat animal meat without worrying about all that.
People should grow up a bit!
#15
Re: Toros - tide turning?
If anybody is truely interested in joining the anti-bullfighting movement here in Spain, rather than just talking about it, this organisation http://www.cacma.org/ is very active in organising petitions, denuncias and demonstrations. I joined in several of their demos last year and was pleasantly surprised at the number who turned out every time. 99.9% Spanish, all ages and all "classes". The first big demo of the year will be taking place in Sevilla very soon.