Terrorism and torture.
Mar 16th 2011 | 6:49 am
#121
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,653
From: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Re: Terrorism and torture.
Bloody hell, I don't know about jimento, but I'm definitely not going to be wandering away with the fairies.
The situation I mentioned,although hypothetical was fairly clear and concise,though I accept that it would be unlikely that you would be the chosen one for the task.
I have given my view. You have given yours, albeit after much wriggling and squirming like a fish on a hook.
No doubt you could continue to vary the situation for ever and a day, eventually to a point where I myself would question whether the end justifies the means.
I don't entirely accept your point that to take such action, makes those responsible as bad as the terrorists.
It's the terrorists who present the initial threat.
No threat from the terrorists then hopefully no threat from the powers that be.
Without a firm response they would virtually take over and make everyones lives a misery,causing psychological trauma to much of the nation and horrible death and destruction to others.
If unscrupulous means have to be used to prevent this, then as I say there are circumstances where the end clearly justifies the means.
No doubt there are a thousand and one different views at which point such circumstances are reached or in other cases like yourself there are those who would just roll over and let it happen, unless possibly a family member or loved one was under threat.
The situation I mentioned,although hypothetical was fairly clear and concise,though I accept that it would be unlikely that you would be the chosen one for the task.
I have given my view. You have given yours, albeit after much wriggling and squirming like a fish on a hook.
No doubt you could continue to vary the situation for ever and a day, eventually to a point where I myself would question whether the end justifies the means.
I don't entirely accept your point that to take such action, makes those responsible as bad as the terrorists.
It's the terrorists who present the initial threat.
No threat from the terrorists then hopefully no threat from the powers that be.
Without a firm response they would virtually take over and make everyones lives a misery,causing psychological trauma to much of the nation and horrible death and destruction to others.
If unscrupulous means have to be used to prevent this, then as I say there are circumstances where the end clearly justifies the means.
No doubt there are a thousand and one different views at which point such circumstances are reached or in other cases like yourself there are those who would just roll over and let it happen, unless possibly a family member or loved one was under threat.
After all, you seemed eager enough to fight your way to the head of the queue to torture the kid's father, so why stop there? I'm sure that Jacky will be happy to hold your coat. She never strikes me as someone who would actually soil those delicate hands with any nastiness.
We'd also get complaints for being happy to torture the daughter from Whitelinen, because it's being nasty to women, so better make it his son, as she'll have no problems with that eh?
I LOVED this comment that you made.
"Without a firm response they would virtually take over and make everyones lives a misery,causing psychological trauma to much of the nation and horrible death and destruction to others."
Nothing like a firm response, even if you do have to soundproof the building least the general populace suffer disquiet, eh?
Mar 16th 2011 | 6:57 am
#123
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: Terrorism and torture.
However referring to fellow posters as muppets could perhaps raise the question as to who really is the muppet.
Mar 16th 2011 | 6:57 am
#124
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Mar 16th 2011 | 7:12 am
#125
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,653
From: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Re: Terrorism and torture.
I think the major difference of opinions here are between those who would be unhappy to agree to torture even in hypothetical instances, and those who would be happy to see it in real life.
Couple of points.
In real life you never have a definite kingpin terrorist whose torture would solve all your problems.
In real life you have undefined threats.
In real life you can seldom be certain that your victim has told you the truth.
So what's the point of torture? Basically it's high end bullying and appeals to a certain mindset.
You know who you are.
Couple of points.
In real life you never have a definite kingpin terrorist whose torture would solve all your problems.
In real life you have undefined threats.
In real life you can seldom be certain that your victim has told you the truth.
So what's the point of torture? Basically it's high end bullying and appeals to a certain mindset.
You know who you are.
Mar 16th 2011 | 7:15 am
#126
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 46,302
From: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Re: Terrorism and torture.
(I'm really glad you chose that username, it gives me the opportunity to reply in such a manner)
Mar 16th 2011 | 7:22 am
#127
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: Terrorism and torture.
I'm assuming you would waterboard the child then, or at least delegate the job if like others you preferred not to get your hands dirty.
After all, you seemed eager enough to fight your way to the head of the queue to torture the kid's father, so why stop there? I'm sure that Jacky will be happy to hold your coat. She never strikes me as someone who would actually soil those delicate hands with any nastiness.
We'd also get complaints for being happy to torture the daughter from Whitelinen, because it's being nasty to women, so better make it his son, as she'll have no problems with that eh?
I LOVED this comment that you made.
"Without a firm response they would virtually take over and make everyones lives a misery,causing psychological trauma to much of the nation and horrible death and destruction to others."
Nothing like a firm response, even if you do have to soundproof the building least the general populace suffer disquiet, eh?
After all, you seemed eager enough to fight your way to the head of the queue to torture the kid's father, so why stop there? I'm sure that Jacky will be happy to hold your coat. She never strikes me as someone who would actually soil those delicate hands with any nastiness.
We'd also get complaints for being happy to torture the daughter from Whitelinen, because it's being nasty to women, so better make it his son, as she'll have no problems with that eh?
I LOVED this comment that you made.
"Without a firm response they would virtually take over and make everyones lives a misery,causing psychological trauma to much of the nation and horrible death and destruction to others."
Nothing like a firm response, even if you do have to soundproof the building least the general populace suffer disquiet, eh?
As I said it's possible you missed your vocation.
I gave no opinion regarding waterboarding a child, likewise I did not say I would fight my way to the head of the queue, only that it would be necessary to do so should I prefer to be there.
I stand by the opinions I have expressed, however regarding your final point I wouldn't be unduly concerned about insisting on a soundproof building, as you once again presumed.
Mar 16th 2011 | 7:25 am
#128
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Mar 16th 2011 | 7:28 am
#129
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,653
From: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Re: Terrorism and torture.
You still insist on making presumptions and twisting things, rather than reading and responding to what has been posted.
As I said it's possible you missed your vocation.
I gave no opinion regarding waterboarding a child, likewise I did not say I would fight my way to the head of the queue, only that it would be necessary to do so should I prefer to be there.
I stand by the opinions I have expressed, however regarding your final point I wouldn't be unduly concerned about insisting on a soundproof building, as you once again presumed.
As I said it's possible you missed your vocation.
I gave no opinion regarding waterboarding a child, likewise I did not say I would fight my way to the head of the queue, only that it would be necessary to do so should I prefer to be there.
I stand by the opinions I have expressed, however regarding your final point I wouldn't be unduly concerned about insisting on a soundproof building, as you once again presumed.
Most certainly you did not say you would fight your way to the head of the queue. It's just that what you did say carried a certain willingness, maybe even enthusiasm, if you know what I mean?
Mar 16th 2011 | 7:30 am
#130
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 46,302
From: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Mar 16th 2011 | 7:44 am
#131
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: Terrorism and torture.
Do us all a favour and go start your own thread entitled sillybuggers.
I'm sure you could merrily post away to your self for hours on end.
Meantime I have no wish to carry the can for you going off topic and trying to mess this one up.
Bye bye.
I'm sure you could merrily post away to your self for hours on end.
Meantime I have no wish to carry the can for you going off topic and trying to mess this one up.
Bye bye.
Mar 16th 2011 | 8:10 am
#132
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 46,302
From: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Re: Terrorism and torture.
Too much competition now, but thanks, much appreciated.
Mar 16th 2011 | 9:05 am
#134
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,231
From: Granada Costa
Re: Terrorism and torture.
What is more important is that it has not (yet) descended to a serious personal level. So if you want to contribute please be constructive rather than just trying to stir it.
I hope it can continue that way.
Last edited by Fred James; Mar 16th 2011 at 9:09 am.
Mar 16th 2011 | 9:11 am
#135
FreeThinker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,702
From: the moors and levels
Re: Terrorism and torture.
Of course, but here you are seperating the personal from the general.
Hurt me or mine, and if I could get away with it, I'd be happy to send such a person home in very small, salted slices.
That's simply self defence.
All this talk of terrorists is simply that people want to say "Ah, well if you woulf do that in that haypothetical case, then that gives us the green light to merrily torture away.
Why not extend the hypothetical thus? If you were elected Queen of fairyland, and there was a threat of terrorism from the gnomes, would you call to have the Butterscotch Brigade of the Fairy Army march off down the yellow brick road?
Hurt me or mine, and if I could get away with it, I'd be happy to send such a person home in very small, salted slices.
That's simply self defence.
All this talk of terrorists is simply that people want to say "Ah, well if you woulf do that in that haypothetical case, then that gives us the green light to merrily torture away.
Why not extend the hypothetical thus? If you were elected Queen of fairyland, and there was a threat of terrorism from the gnomes, would you call to have the Butterscotch Brigade of the Fairy Army march off down the yellow brick road?
You are saying that you would do it if it was personal but not otherwise. I think it is admirable that others could disassociate themselves from their own situation and do such a thing not only for their own close loved ones but for others who are unknown.
