JLFS

so does that mean the you are not going to answer my post number 56?

bil

I remember being on an American board once, and they were insane with rage that a US soldier had allegedly been tortured.

This was shortly after they had all enthusiastically defended what went on in Abu Ghraib (where people died under torture) as no worse than hazing.

Now, to what extent do you think the yanks' policy on torture gave strength to the terrorists' recruitment drive?

JLFS

If that is the answer to my post number 56 you will have to explain, I just want to know if torture would have been justified if 9/11 would have been prevented?

bil

Post 56, already answered it once, but here it is simplified.

I will not torture a sentient animal, much less a human. I think that being able to contemplate that in seriousness would be a bit like saying that if you love them, sex with an eight year old is acceptable.

It isn't.

Plus this is a bogus argument, as I laid out in my reply.

bil

Even simpler. NO.

You do it.

Oooops, no, you wouldn't be would you? So, you would be giving the orders to torture?

rugbymatt

Is waterboardng really torture? I went through worse at public school....

bil

In the ones I went to the torture was far more low level. The real dangers came from the odd predatory homosexual teacher.

bil

Post 56 again. Can you explain how if such torture were acceptable to you, you would not be willing to lend a hand?

JLFS

No I nver said that I would give an order to torture, there are people who are responsible for surveillance, aprhension, detaining, charging and sentancing these people, that is their job, if not, there would be no complaints of torture would there? so the same people who have done it in the past would be the ones to carry on with their methods, I would not be rewquired to get involved in any way, even if I wanted to, which I dont.

And if you feel that sacrificing thousands of innocent lives, kiddies on a flight for expamle is preferable to waterboarding, then what more can be said, I presume that if your own family were on one of the doomed flights your answer would be the same?

I am not talking about getting information after the event, in my little senario it is preventing the whole, 9/11 tradgedy from happening.

rugbymatt

Sounds like Siesta Time on a full moon night!

HBG

I would imagine Moat’s two accomplices, especially the one who got 40 years today, would have liked Bil on the jury. The man, Karl, never even killed anyone directly, he just did what Moat told him and claimed it was under duress.

Come to think of it, Bil, I hope never to be in that position, but if I was gripping the rail at the Old Bailey, I would love to see you and a mate or two sitting on the jury. I would definitely buy you a drink afterwards. And before if no one was looking.

If I saw Jackie on the jury, I would have pleaded guilty.

JLFS

I dont know what you are on at the moment bil, I will answer you as best I can.

I believe that if a leg is gangrenous, it should be amputated,but I would not take part in any way, we have doctors, scrub nurses and the medical staff for that.

If my sewer pipe was blocked up with 6 months worth of compacted sh**e, I would not take part in the cleaning of it an any way.

I like going to restaurants for a meal, but I would never stick my nose in and help them prepare it in the kitchen

I believe in education, but I would not for one moment have any desire to stand infront of a class and explain about fractions to them.

Also you do sound a bit stupid, even if I wanted to take part in the torture, which i dont because, I do believe it is basically wrong, how would I go about it, Knock on the door of MI5 or Torturers R US, and ask if I could sit in and maybe have a little go at the suspect myself.

I think I would be sectioned.......

bil

If I thought that torture were acceptable, I'd be happy to do it. Since I am not happy to torture someone myself, I could not be happy delegating that chore to someone else.

When I had people working with me, we had to go into many homes, some of them down right disgusting. My instructions to them was this. You do not have to go into any situation that I would not be happy going into.

C'mon, this scenario just doesn't float. In reality no-one would ever get such concrete information that a terrorist act was going to happen. You and others are just desperate to get me to say torture is acceptable, and it isn't.

All we ever get is vague warnings and vague lists, and the fact is that no-one in the real world would ever have such a safe target to torture.

Just what would be the chances that a) you got even a half defined tip, and b) your family happened to be on that plane.

As if.

bil

Oh c'mon. This is seriously bogus. You stick me in the position of being able to okay the torture of a suspect, but won't consider yourself in that seat?

Just what it has to do with the examples you suggest? As a point of reference, if it helps, well, me I always clear my own blocked drains. It's an easy job, if a tad whiffy, and I'm damned if I am handing a small fortune to Dynorod to do it.

bil

Maybe he just wanted to borrow the soap, but as I had my back to the door and my legs straight out with my feet against the bath rim, he couldn't get in, tho he was very, very forceful.... so, I will never know.