EMR

To use your analogy the problem is if I am Joe Bloggs with a small tree I lose 50% of them.
But the neighbour with a much bigger and healthier tree can employ a gardener and as a result only loses 5% of his leaves.
The business that needs the leaves unable to collect them from the wealthy neighbour takes more and more from Joe Bloggs.

johnnyone

Two different issues.

amideislas

The traditional socialist mindset of dismissing the forest for the trees.

EMR

Of course the forest would be healthier if the leaf collection business was able to run effectively and efficiently by taking only 20% of the leaves from every tree.
You would then have every tree in the forest healthy and thriving rather than just a few.

amideislas

It not only could, but would.

If there were no competition for tax revenue, you could expect government to have absolutely no motivation to operate with any efficiency whatsoever, and taxes would only rise, whilst delivering less to the taxpayer.

And true, the US has widely varying taxation between states - as well as competition for it, and combined with Americans' cultural aversion to high taxes and bloated government, this providing every motivation to maintain government efficiency. And that is another reason why the US economy is consistently stable.

EMR

Does the US not have the biggest National debt in the world,
Does its government and public services not shut down at times because of the machinations of those opposed to tax and central government.
You cannot compare the US local tax regimes to that of Governments in the EU.
Residents of individual states can pay , a local sales tax, a state income tax plus a national income tax. How is that a better and simpler regime.
I have to ask why do you not live in the US if it is such a perfect place ??

Fredbargate

Per capita no

EMR

What difference does that make it is still has the biggest debt in the world.
If it was such a succesfull and well managed economy you would expect it to have one of the smallest national debts.

amideislas

Actually, Japan has the highest public debt, Greece has the highest by % of GDP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
But yes, US debt is high - about 12th down on the list, no matter how you measure it.

There is a difference, however, in that the US has a $16 trillion economy that's growing - and it has a AAA+ credit rating - meaning it has the demonstrable means to repay it, unlike most of those who have higher debt than the US.

Public shutdowns result from the American public's aversion to debt, and its refusal to simply allow its government to pile on more public burden without its permission. After all, the US government is systematically subservient to American voters.

And wouldn't it be great if Europeans could do that? Unfortunately, we are subservient to government, not the other way around.

Why can't you compare EU/US tax regimes? Would that shed too much light on our own failings?

Average American taxpayers demonstrably pay less tax than Europeans. That has been illustrated ad-nauseum. There is nothing more to say about that.

I don't recall anyone saying the US is a perfect place. So far, I believe you're the only one.

However, as we continue in economic decline, perhaps even you might agree that criticising those who outperform us could be a bit hypocritical, don't you think?


And the reason I don't live there? Well, me and about 100 million others would love to, so it's no surprise that the entry barriers have been <responsibly> raised beyond the means of most, including myself.

EMR

Only If I agreed with you that the US outperforms us and that its taxation regimes provides a better quality of life for it inhabitants.
You believe that there is this amporphous mass called Europe when it is in fact just a collection of individual nations each with its own agenda, economic management, tax regimes etc
You can rightly compare individual nations eg Greece or France with the US but there is no such thing as this Europe you keep referring to.

amideislas

Well, the facts speak for themselves. And I don't blame you. Denial and diversion is historically a very Socialist character.

But since you've already suffered quite a bit in this debate, I'll let you have the final denial/diversion.

And the UK is NOT a Eurozone member, has a completely different economy, politics, and culture than any Eurozone member, and far more resembles the US in those respects. So making that argument is irrelevant.

Unlike the US, however, the United Kingdom does subscribe to a "Euro Club" card, which entitles it to trade discounts with the Krauts, the Frogs and the rest of those wacky "Europeans". But that's about the extent of it's "Europeanism".

Britain is not a European country

EMR

What is this Europe you keep referring to.
There is the Eurozone a group of nations that share the same currency and all have different economic and tax regimes.
Then there are the non Euro members of the EU agains with different economic and tax regimes such as the UK
Then there are the non EU members of Europe again with their own regimes.

What is the Europe you keep referring to and where is your evidence of its unified tax and economic regimes??

The UK is part of the EU and Europe and has one of the fastest growing economies in the western world which by your own definition makes the UK a better example of good economic management than the US.

amideislas

Whilst I accept that you subscribe to an ideology which indemnifies you from any personal responsibility for anything, I do expect you to exhibit some of the same respect in return.

Therefore, if you are unwilling or unable to accept the burden of reading that very information I've provided you throughout this debate, then I regret that I have no choice but to temporarily exhibit your own ideological character, and simply say "it's not my responsibility".

Please respect that I cannot accept the burden of endlessly repeating it simply because you believe you are ideologically "entitled" to ignore it at my expense.

EMR

Are you really saying that only that which you post is right and that anyone who holds a contrary view to yours has a character defect.?
If so then Forums are not for you because you clearly do not understand what the word Forum means.
If only those views which you hold are correct then why are earth are there as many economists tax experts all with differing opinions as there are.
Who are actually in positions of influence and authority.

The UK economy is growing faster than many in the western world , has the UK got it wrong as well because it does not follow your line of thinking.
I am not sure what you mean by " its not my responsibility " .
Like you all I can do is observe, theorise etc .
I would not be so arrogant to suggest that only my views make sense.

This is a debate about tax avoidance and evasion and by extension how these influence or affect economies.

It is not for you to suggest that only your views should be taken seriously.

amideislas

Well, there's another diversion. And it sounds a bit like denial, too.