steviedeluxe

The vulture funds are coming!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8540DW20120605

bigglesworth

Matt I think he is saying we should live in the past, but get rid of the past. And walk softly in case the failed state that is Russia somehow survives the decline in the price of oil. (I don't suppose he knows Putin is well aware his days are numbered and is carefully stashing the cash through Gunvor)

Presumably we should "lurk about guiltily within ourselves".

rugbymatt

Yeah.... thats sort of what I thought he was saying. Still a little confused!

Fred James

It's been deleted so you can just ignore it!

bob_bob

You've been back to your home planet again haven't you What a really stupid statement. Your back on earth now so try and be serious

bob_bob

Don't know about Gib but the Falklands are not changing hands in the foreseeable future. The islanders don't want the change and Argentina does not have the clout or kit to take the islands by force. Super carriers? do we need them these days? I doubt there will be a combat pilot in a plane in twenty years time it will all be remote flown.

Dick Dasterdly

We've always been at the leading edge of hi-tec and innovation, even during hard and desperate times and I don't see that changing in the near future.

cricketman

Why is this stupid?

It's my observation from speaking to many Spanish people over the years.

I feel that British people in Spain have a high opinion of their own importance. The vast majority of Spaniards has never even spoken to a Brit. They dont all run tourist trap bars on the Costas you know

bigglesworth

The Times also this morning stating that the vultures are circling.
Here another anonymous lawyer (As an aside, how well did bankers do that they now seem to rate lower than lawyers in most peoples eyes?)


“The price at which banks would be willing to sell and investors willing to buy has narrowed a lot. That is a fact,” said a Madrid-based lawyer.

Dick Dasterdly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18337426

6 German banks and 3 Austrian downgraded.

Domino

well about time,

the market shakers and movers must have spent the weekend looking for fresh blood, even post Inquisition Spain has little of that left.

amideislas

Frankly, most people exhibit a high opinion of their own importance, even when they're living in an alternate reality, which brings me to my next point.

If you really believe most Spaniards have never spoken to a Brit, then I'd have to believe most Germans have never spoken to a Frenchman, most French have never spoken to a Spaniard, and most English have never spoken to a Irishman. Oh, and I have a fantastic real estate deal for you.

Also, have a look at the worst-rated tourist establishments in Spain on Tripadvisor. Quite a few, if not most, are indeed run by Spaniards. The best rated are most oft run by foreigners.

Now, before you go all knackered and pee all over yourself, this is only a criticism to the extent that just like every other society on the planet, I believe the Spanish also would greatly benefit from taking a hard look at the world around them, and I strongly sense you could use a dose of it yourself.

Anyway, is is really necessary to over-exaggerate every post? (Tip: consistent over-emphasis mitigates the impact).

Oh, and you forgot your ROFL icon again.

Sigh

steviedeluxe

Actually he does have a point if you come away from the tourist resorts. I worked in Madrid, a city of 5 million people, and if you heard someone talking in English the chances are it would be either an American, or a German or Swede trying to order in the bar. Most "foreigners" in Madrid are either south American, or eastern European, with a few Moroccans for good measure. True to say that in most mainland cities (and indeed many communities such as Asturias, Cantabria, Castilla-Leon, Galicia, Navarra etc) you simply don't bump into a Brit, unless you enter a language school or head for the Irish pub. So CM is actually right in the overall sense, even if it seems strange in a resort town where you can't avoid Brit tourists and residents.
I also spent a month in Barcelona in the Gracia area, and again you wouldn't see many (if any) Brits unless you headed to a tourist spot like the Ramblas or the Sagrada cathedral.

alecalgo

======reply==========
You are quite right Fred ..... no way would the good folks of La Linea want to rock the boat and cause trouble which could lose jobs. In fact they would no doubt do their utmost to eject any agitators come to cause havoc etc I have to stress though that my speculation back in post ??, is based on a study of how mass public protest movements 'take off' and sustain themselves over various periods of time .... and also on the following points.
---
(a) my assumption that there will now be permanent mass unemployment of the young in Spain. In fact I really do not see how perpetual mass unemployment in the whole of Europe can be now be prevented, seeing that the bulk of skilled and unskilled manual labour requirements have moved permanently to the far East, a process that now seems irrevocable ..... populations, and their expectations, have necessarily to be reduced ...:-((
Govts have belatedly learned their lessons about BANKS ....(that dirty word) - so things will NEVER be the same again !
(b) my understanding of the present and future demographic situation in spain.
(c) my guestimation of the present and likely social cohesion of the masses in Spain.
So, if it comes about (and I am not say categorically that a "TAKE GIB" movement would succeed even if it did come about) it'll more than likely be a long time in the making ... so if you are an oldie, Fred, it'll probably not happen in your life time.
(1)---
A year or so down the line it will depend very much on the methodology the Govt develops for channeling the energy and danger of mass public street protests (the los indignados demos & sit-ins may well seem as damp squibs to what may happen in this regard). Of the two, the mass unemployment of the young working classes, or that of the jobless undergraduates, the latter is the more dangerous. Famously easily politicised when they have time on their hands, it is from this group that the necessary charismatic leadership could emerge : many such will form homogeneous cooperating groupings capable of forming definite strategies - inevitably, in lieu of anything more positive, they will eventually veer towards Nationalism.
(2)---
Gibraltar ?? ....Well, a steam boiler has a safety feature, an easy-melt plug in case of over heating. Govt administrations in dire straits also need safety blow-off valves in order to maintain some semblance of social cohesion - and, if the worklessness in Spain increases, then Gib would seem to be one of the very few blow-off valves available to this Govt or any future Govt.
If a Govt can get it's hands on the Press then that is one way of reducing the pressure - by controlling the news. Another pro-active sleight of hand it that of Nationalising foreign assets and then say you will bestow the profits on the people - Argentina nationalising Repsol one such good example; that action reduced the pressure there. Where you have to wait on events it is much more difficult : then the Govt has to pull the strings from behind the scene : that is what will happen with Gibraltar .... No, you say ? Well, say no when a Nationalist Govt takes over ....as it surely will within the next 5 to 10 years if the present collapse becomes an exponential one !
(3)----
The very much under employed spanish army (no doubt quizzical and puzzled by the present turn of events) will no doubt be an element in the equation (and don't forget
the various branches of the police force - already buzzing with anger and threats). Doubtlessly, even the Army, however unwillingly, will have to take a big pay cut. And almost certainly they will be asked, politely at first then ordered point blank, to set up 'training camps' in Spain's plentiful wide open spaces for the young unemployed. This is a measure that should long ago have been adopted in the UK .... but we haven't got nothing like the necessary space in England .... and in view of the upcoming Scottish referendum there is no way we can ask Salmond for the use of his vast and ideal highland tracts. He is working in the opposite direction - scheming how to rid Scotland of Trident, even if he does not win the referendum. No doubt he will be looking for a quid pro quo on that issue....as a face saver should he lose !
(4)----
What would be the efficacy of these spanish 'training' camps ? Well, for one thing they would ease the pressure on the Govt; they would be seen to be 'doing something', however little. What would they do in terms of my La Linea scenario ? Well, as I see it, there would be a cross pollination between some of the more intellectual politically minded but unemployed uni-graduates, many of whom I am sure would be willing volunteers on these schemes : as would very many of the young disenchanted supervising army officers. They, doubtlessly, as an outcome of many mess discussions, would long have advocated Gib action, by whatever means, as a surefire way of winning their spurs.
(5)---
What would this cross pollination consist of ? Well one thing for sure, they'd all be genning up on José Antonio Primo de Rivera and the philosophy and ideology of his Falange Española movement (it had a severe Nationalist slant and advocated a state planned capitalist economy. It also abhorred Marxism and democracy). They'd also soon become aware that Franco took (or rather 'stole') the movement over and subverted the ideology for his own ends. Whatever, both the young officers and the civilians 'joining up' will inevitably become rabid nationalists - it's the way the Spanish are at bottom. Just as we Brits are !
Don't forget .... taken to extremes the above has been the way of so many military coups the world over. Insubordination among junior officers often enough follows as a matter of course in some armies where stagnation has taken hold. In the end though for all such coup scenarios to be successful .... the emergence of a single charismatic figure is essential .... a Churchill if you like ? Or such as de Rivera's dad, the Dictator under King Alfonso, for another.
(6)---
Expect such 'training establishments' to be very much nearer to Gib than the present army camps are. The emphasis will be on mental, intellectual and physical fitness - so the golf courses will be ideal for football pitches and running tracks etc. No doubt some, or indeed very many, of the redundant and semi redundant golf courses (and adjacent unsold and 'bank owned' estates) will be 'taken over' (for that read 'grabbed' ... or even 'Nationalised').
For my above 'mental & intellectual fitness' read "The Methodology of Organising and Controlling Mass Protests ..... using all types of Social Media (and of course 'agents provocateurs')" for that will be top of the study list. Another will be the study of the efficacy, or lack of it, of the Madrid and country wide 'manifestaciones de los indignados'
For that will be the La Linea approach .... very indirect, the supporting army and state apparatus in the background ..... organised mass protest in the forefront. Banners such as "Amigos, acamparemos in La Linea para ver si podemos acampar in NUESTRO Gibraltar sin molestias y problemas" will be seen.
Times have very much moved on from those of the Jarrow marches to London .... then the left hand of the protest movement hadn't a clue as to what the right hand was doing. Now both hands are connected in spades .... all hail the new weapon of choice .... the Social Media !

alecalgo

Yes, they are a great tool those auto-drones, the other night one got the second in command Al kaida man in the Pakistani badlands .... good stuff that (that's if it is really true ?). However, I think their range is about a 500 ?? mile radius of the take-off point. Therefore, from an American aircraft carrier based off Syria, they can no way reach Assad's palace (you know, on a tit for tat basis - you, Assad, do a massacre, we do your palace over). And as for reaching Mugabe (long, long overdue) that's a complete no no also rangewise.
So ..... 20 years from now, still prop driven, but bigger and better with more range (say 1500 miles) and clout .... we are left with still having to station a floating island or a carrier every 750 miles ? (what's the distance .....10,000 miles ....or more ?) Erh .... just had a thought though, what or who would we bomb with it ?
Silly me .... just had another thought .... you'd do the sensible thing and base the things in the Falklands, wouldn't you ? ....what's the smiley for me painfully banging my head on the wall ?