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Spain: Paradise lost

Spain: Paradise lost

Old Nov 23rd 2009, 11:53 am
  #61  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by agoreira
Yes, that about sums it up, the Spanish are so steeped in corruption, they see nothing wrong with it, it's expected of people in high office. Probably most of those people have already given him a bung, and knowing that he readily accepts them, why not have him back, he's "bribable". it's inbred, I'm afraid.
All Spain BAD, all UK GOOD? I'm afraid I see good and bad in all countries, even in the UK, despite this latest bit of news:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...y-1825915.html

Now the expenses spotlight falls on Britain's judiciary

First-class train tickets, airfares and dining bills take annual claims by judges and magistrates to £32m
Unfortunately, if you dig deep enough you can find corrupt people and practises everywhere. I don't see how trying to paint one country as being particularly corrupt and "third-world" helps - it merely raises people's hackles. I'd like to see Spanish levels of public transport and hospitality (although some hotels are good, many are extremely poor in their class) in the UK, but it doesn't justify any accusations of third-world status. If anyone has been consistently "rubbishing" another country it hasn't been Cricketman. He too has pointed out there are good and bad parts to wherever you may choose to live. I've only ever heard negative things about Spain from 2 posters in particular.

I think Veleta described the situation best. If you buy a property in an long-established urban environment then it's highly unlikely you'll have these problems. I've a couple of friends who've bought up 2 houses in a village on the north coast, re-developed them and they've had no problems whatsoever. Incidentally I've gathered from conversations with Spanish people that councils get a lot of income from granting rights to developers to transform land into urban status. Whether you agree with this is one thing (one argument in its favour is that it means a lower council tax for the population, but it does lend itself to corruption), but it does mean that if you "colonise" land outside the parameters then there's going to be a legal risk. It's a shame for those caught up in this - a pity a forum like this was not available 20 years ago so the British migrants could have been fore-warned. The worst thing (from my pov) is that the current system has not only punished (a minority of) unwary buyers, but has singularly failed to protect much of the Mediterranean coast. For some reason the northern coastline has been far better governed (and yes there are developments and hotels there too).
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 12:24 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Maybe people should stop trying to compare both countries and accept others opinions.

There is no right or wrong.

So lets have discussion, this isn`t a court and there is no jury.

And I`m always right.
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 12:31 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by chulo
Maybe people should stop trying to compare both countries and accept others opinions.

There is no right or wrong.

So lets have discussion, this isn`t a court and there is no jury.

And I`m always right.
I must admit your posts have surprised (and impressed) me recently Chulo. Maybe you are right, sometimes
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 1:14 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

All Spain BAD, all UK GOOD?
Your choice of words not mine. I have been visiting Spain for nearly 30 years, and will continue to, so there must be plenty that I do like about the place., but long ago I decided there's no way I would want to live there. But where we differ, is I don't wear blinkers like you, or the rose tinted glasses, I can see the good and the bad. If you seriously believe the UK is as corrupt as Spain, we'll have to agree to differ, but I could not see local people here clamouring to keep a mayor that has been found guilty of taking bungs. We had a mayor here that was receiving Disability Allowance and running the line at football matches. Now there are lots of people receiving this allowance that shouldn't be, he's not alone there, but he was taken to court, sentenced, which included paying back a large sum of money, and sacked from his job as mayor. It's the whole attitude towards the corruption, here the guy had no support whatsoever, in Spain, not a problem, carry on regardless.
If you buy a property in an long-established urban environment then it's highly unlikely you'll have these problems
You all keep saying that, but it's not guaranteed, and what I can't get to grips with is why can't you safely buy in the other places. Why should it be so risky to buy a new place. I don't live in an urbanised area in UK, and I wouldn't want to in Spain, so even iif I did want to move there, it's not a safe option for me.
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 1:51 pm
  #65  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

This forum is supposed to be about
SPAIN


If you wanna yak about the UK then go to a UK forum.
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 2:15 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Nearly all the threads in this forum yak about the UK. Too much time on their hands if you ask me. If I said I tripped on a cracked pavement in Benidorm at least 3 posters would come on to say how bad the pavements are in the UK
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 2:29 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by jdr
This forum is supposed to be about
SPAIN
If you wanna yak about the UK then go to a UK forum.
Thanks, as the originator of this thread I didn't know how to pull it back to the topic without offending anyone.
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 2:44 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by jackytoo
If I said I tripped on a cracked pavement in Benidorm at least 3 posters would come on to say how bad the pavements are in the UK
True! Or how dirty the hospitals are! I was just reading the dental charges in Spain, when someone couldn't resist, would have cost a lot more in the UK
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 2:55 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Jealousy is a dangerous tool.

I have to say it also works both ways.
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 3:23 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by Mad Max
Thanks, as the originator of this thread I didn't know how to pull it back to the topic without offending anyone.
Just tell them to bugger off and start their own threads.
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Mad Max, here is something on topic. May have been an out of date programme but the same problems are still there...unless a 1050 people are making it up!

http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/...n-in-Spain.jsp
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 4:30 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Your choice of words not mine. I have been visiting Spain for nearly 30 years, and will continue to, so there must be plenty that I do like about the place., but long ago I decided there's no way I would want to live there. But where we differ, is I don't wear blinkers like you, or the rose tinted glasses, I can see the good and the bad.
Did you even read my post? Perhaps you missed the parts where I said that not only were unaware buyers punished, but the Med coastline was still damaged by the policies? Don't judge me or other posters by your own blinkered mentality. If you can see the "good and the bad" why do you never talk about the good? Until that time I can't see you as being as reasoned and as balanced as the other posters here. In fact often when I read Agoreira says "Spain's food/coffee/transport is overrated etc" I'm reminded at just how good the country is in some aspects. Nevertheless I don't think anyone here (even Cricketman) is saying the illegal homes issue has been handled well; it 's part of the mix of a different culture. Some things will seem good to us, others bad. End of the day, as Chulo says there's no right or wrong in our opinions, but perhaps we can agree that those who've been caught up having an illegal house (no matter how small a minority they are) are in a position none of us would like to be. I just hope they get the correct legal help and (hopefully) decent compensation. There but for the grace of God...
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 4:36 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Mad Max, here is something on topic. May have been an out of date programme but the same problems are still there...unless a 1050 people are making it up!

http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/...n-in-Spain.jsp
That's actually a good link, thanks for posting it. A couple of paragraphs were very pertinent:
As well as corrupt developers, the Spanish Property Scandal group blames negligence on the part of Spanish lawyers, who failed to independently advise purchasers. The problem ultimately stems from foreign buyers blithely using the lawyer recommended by the developer's agent.

"Stupidly, many of us used the Spanish lawyer recommended by the agent," Ms Wyatt says. "They speak the lingo – you just go along with it. But the lawyers have to take a huge responsibility for this mess. They haven't worked in our interests, haven't properly informed us of our legal rights and have not given us the correct advice."
The question is - how can we prevent this type of thing happening in the future (assuming the present system remains the same). At least nowadays we have websites like this forum, where prospective buyers can investigate the potential pitfalls.
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 6:09 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
The question is - how can we prevent this type of thing happening in the future (assuming the present system remains the same). At least nowadays we have websites like this forum, where prospective buyers can investigate the potential pitfalls.
Thank-you. This is why I posted this thread. Buyers have used Spanish lawyers to investigate (one would have thought and paid for) all things legal. But to me as a complete newbie from the UK, who wants to buy a place in Spain feels we are walking a minefield and wearing a blindfold.

I have a 6 figure sum in cash waiting to find that perfect Spanish home, but the more I read and research on the biggest fear I have (Illegal property's) the more I am worried. I have read comments that there thousands of illegal propertys in Southern Spain yet only a small proportion have been flattened is not the reassurance I am looking for.

I do not with respect want to be one of those thousands of people who have now found out that their property is illegal and now sat there waiting for the dreaded knock on the door or letter from a newly elected town council that their property will have to be demolished, thats stress and worry I do not need in my new found freedom as a retired person (Does my fears make sense).
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Old Nov 23rd 2009, 6:26 pm
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

I feel the only solution is through EU courts, although Spain seems to be confident enough to ignore any ruling.

I`m in a similar position although I prefer Italy, my OH prefers Spain, Italy has worse issues than Spain.

We may bite the bullet and buy in Saudi or the Arab Emirates, they seem to have no issue at all.

Prices are better than Spain as well,

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-...UAE-Dubai.html

Last edited by chulo; Nov 23rd 2009 at 6:35 pm.
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