Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Spain
Reload this Page >

Spain: Paradise lost

Spain: Paradise lost

Old Nov 23rd 2009, 6:33 pm
  #76  
Forum Regular
 
carter71's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Alacant
Posts: 170
carter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to allcarter71 is a name known to all
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by Veleta
Well, I guess because that is not the typical Spanish way of living. Spain is a nation of apartment dwellers and living outside the major towns and cities is not very popular.

In the UK not only is it considered acceptable, it can even be considered desirable to live in the countryside where there is just as much wealth and high standard of living as you would find in any city. Spain is totally different (just look at all the people in the campo who do not have elec, water, internet, telephone, etc).
I think you are spot on. Much of the campo is viewed as worthless by the Spanish - only good for the farm laborers and 'outsiders'. There is no need to solve infrastructure problems when 99.9% of the voters live in the Town.
carter71 is offline  
Old Nov 23rd 2009, 7:15 pm
  #77  
BE Enthusiast
 
Econ's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Southern Spain
Posts: 773
Econ has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by chulo
I feel the only solution is through EU courts, although Spain seems to be confident enough to ignore any ruling.
This has been taken up with the EU... but don't hold your breath. I heard today that Spain has been denounced on the tax relief given to Catalan companies * 10 YEARS AGO * and the EU warned Spain about it then along with them issuing work contracts to companies and then changing them after they where issued, it has two months left to pay up... 10 years ago Spain was taken up about this by the EU and has two months left.. oh golly gosh, aren't these politicians really on the ball and doing a good job! Some people who are in legality problems with their properties will be dead or have reached a stage in their lives where winning 'if they do' will not make a difference if this takes as long, just another of my gripes with the EU... feet dragging.

BTW, there are two months left for this money to be paid, if it is not paid by the deadline I wonder how many more years it will take for the EU to give punishment... when that happens it will be issued with a fine, not a fine that will be paid by the politicians who took the decision, it will be paid by you, me and every other person in Spain who pays taxes.

Last edited by Econ; Nov 23rd 2009 at 7:24 pm.
Econ is offline  
Old Nov 23rd 2009, 7:36 pm
  #78  
Banned
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
JLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

As someone who is by my own definition niether fish nor foul (expat or exexpat), I agree that both Spain and the UK have their good and bad points.

However the most "alarming" and embarassing topic for me, is the one about illegal houses.

It does not just affect the British, but they seem to be the majority.

I find it appauling that properties are bought and sold, which are deemed illegal, after the poor innocent buyer purchases in good faith. Putting their trust in a solicitor who the rely on for good advice.

Apart from the most prominent cases of houses being demolished, lots of other properites are made legal, by the residents having to pay a load of money to put things right.

I find is shamefull that there seems to be no safeguard and once again it is the small guy who comes off worst. All the others in the chain, builder, solicitor etc do not seem to be accountable to anyone.

And to compare this major problem with others has no bearing on the case, this is a scandal, pure and simple.
JLFS is offline  
Old Nov 23rd 2009, 7:38 pm
  #79  
BE Enthusiast
 
Econ's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Southern Spain
Posts: 773
Econ has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond reputeEcon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
All Spain BAD, all UK GOOD? I'm afraid I see good and bad in all countries, even in the UK, despite this latest bit of news:
I think to most people it is obvious that there is good and bad in both countries, but then sometimes I get the feeling when something is discussed you get the .... 'running down Spain' critics heads popping up because they cannot grasp the discussion or understand one, in reality if something like this thread topic is discussed it may seem one sided but people are not going to complain and then say.... 'but I like the albondigas and the people in my village etc.'. At the end of the day a disgrace is a disgrace and nothing changes that, if people think this then they should be able to say that without being accused of being anti this or anti that... granted, in some cases it is deserved.
There are many things that are a disgrace in the UK and in Brussels, expenses scandal, railroading citizens into something they where told they where to get a vote on and then didn't and where lied to in the end to try and cover their tracks, etc. etc. ... but this has nothing to do with the thread. I know I myself how easy you can take a thread off track... although that in my case 'I think' was generally because there was a connection, although this can get 'very' far off track quickly by the time a couple of posts come back so I can sympathise a little with that at times, although... chucking muck back after accusing someone of chucking muck when all they are doing is discussing the topic does no good and doesn't help anyone. I think people need to understand that because someone complains about something somewhere doesn't mean they are running a country down.

Last edited by Econ; Nov 23rd 2009 at 7:48 pm.
Econ is offline  
Old Nov 23rd 2009, 7:42 pm
  #80  
BE Forum Addict
 
rachelk's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Córdoba
Posts: 1,558
rachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond reputerachelk has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by JLFS
I find it appauling.
Spoken like a true englishman, sir.
rachelk is offline  
Old Nov 23rd 2009, 8:00 pm
  #81  
Banned
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
JLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by rachelk
Spoken like a true englishman, sir.
I have spelt appaulling wrong, oh well..............
JLFS is offline  
Old Nov 23rd 2009, 8:27 pm
  #82  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
agoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by JLFS
I have spelt appaulling wrong, oh well..............
Twice! Appalling. But you're allowed!
agoreira is offline  
Old Nov 23rd 2009, 8:34 pm
  #83  
Banned
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
JLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond reputeJLFS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by agoreira
Twice! Appalling. But you're allowed!
I know you wont believe me but it was a typo.
JLFS is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2009, 5:52 am
  #84  
HBG
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
HBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by Mad Max
Thank-you. This is why I posted this thread. Buyers have used Spanish lawyers to investigate (one would have thought and paid for) all things legal. But to me as a complete newbie from the UK, who wants to buy a place in Spain feels we are walking a minefield and wearing a blindfold.

I have a 6 figure sum in cash waiting to find that perfect Spanish home, but the more I read and research on the biggest fear I have (Illegal property's) the more I am worried. I have read comments that there thousands of illegal propertys in Southern Spain yet only a small proportion have been flattened is not the reassurance I am looking for.

I do not with respect want to be one of those thousands of people who have now found out that their property is illegal and now sat there waiting for the dreaded knock on the door or letter from a newly elected town council that their property will have to be demolished, thats stress and worry I do not need in my new found freedom as a retired person (Does my fears make sense).
Your fears make perfect sense and there have been some considered comments on this thread to help you make a decision. The trouble is, Spain is such a perfect destination, especially for retired Brits. In fact it is the perfect destination, the million Brits living here, me included, testify to that.

If you moved your six figure sum to anywhere else in the world there would also be a risk, and the destination would not compare to Spain. That is the reality of the world we live in.

Even with all the safeguards already discussed, your money would always be at risk, perhaps not as much as if you invested it in RBS of HBOS, or Woolworths, but a risk nevertheless.

It’s the perverse British house owning culture that’s at fault, and I’m speaking from personal experience. Why not leave your money in the UK, invested as safely as possible, and I can’t think of a suggestion, and come to Spain and rent for a few years until things settle down?

The rental market in Spain is vast and entirely different to the UK. The tenant is well protected by real laws and you can agree to the length of the tenancy, for the rest of your life if you wish.

But most of all you would have the freedom to move around and find your own, perfect destination, be it the mountains of Andalucia or the flatlands of the Costa Blanca. Even more salient, you can opt to live in ‘real’ Spain, or among your fellow expats.

As a personal example, this morning I’m going to walk to my local bank, in the sun which has just come up, still in shorts, to get some money out of the cashpoint. I’m then going to buy myself an English newspaper, and maybe a Spanish one too, and I will then be standing in the sun with a choice, right in front of me.

There’s a Spanish café to the left of me, a German bakers, with a café, to the right of me, an English bar for a greasy breakfast in front of me, and if I jump in the car I’ll be on a blue star beach in four minutes.

Start packing.
HBG is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2009, 7:43 am
  #85  
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 699
chulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud ofchulo has much to be proud of
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by HBG

As a personal example, this morning I’m going to walk to my local bank, in the sun which has just come up, still in shorts, to get some money out of the cashpoint. I’m then going to buy myself an English newspaper, and maybe a Spanish one too, and I will then be standing in the sun with a choice, right in front of me.

There’s a Spanish café to the left of me, a German bakers, with a café, to the right of me, an English bar for a greasy breakfast in front of me, and if I jump in the car I’ll be on a blue star beach in four minutes.

Start packing.
If your happy with that who is to disagree.

But not all potential expats want the same, I`m in that group that views Spain as a potential headache rather than relaxing lifestyle choice.
chulo is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2009, 7:58 am
  #86  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
agoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by JLFS
I know you wont believe me but it was a typo.
¡Cuéntaselo a tu abuela!
agoreira is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2009, 8:23 am
  #87  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
agoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

The trouble is, Spain is such a perfect destination, especially for retired Brits. In fact it is the perfect destination, the million Brits living here, me included, testify to that.
It´s great that you are blissfully happy, along with many other Brits, but to suggest that it´s the perfect location for all Brits sounds like sales patter.
Reading in other forums, there are many that have tried it and decided it´s not for them, and they have gone home, or stuck in a house they cannot sell, so are trapped there. Reading from a haulier in another forum, he says most of his work this year has been one way traffic, taking people back to UK. Spain is no different than many other places in this respect, it will be the perfect spot for some but not for others, certainly not for everyone. Read the returning Brits thread, there are thousands that have found out the hard way that places like Australia didn´t do it for them. as they had expected. There are many like me that have been visiting Spain for a long, long time, but have decided that living there is not for us, but are quite content to keep on spending a fortnight, a month or two there at a time.
agoreira is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2009, 12:19 pm
  #88  
HBG
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
HBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond reputeHBG has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by agoreira
It´s great that you are blissfully happy, along with many other Brits, but to suggest that it´s the perfect location for all Brits sounds like sales patter.
Reading in other forums, there are many that have tried it and decided it´s not for them, and they have gone home, or stuck in a house they cannot sell, so are trapped there. Reading from a haulier in another forum, he says most of his work this year has been one way traffic, taking people back to UK. Spain is no different than many other places in this respect, it will be the perfect spot for some but not for others, certainly not for everyone. Read the returning Brits thread, there are thousands that have found out the hard way that places like Australia didn´t do it for them. as they had expected. There are many like me that have been visiting Spain for a long, long time, but have decided that living there is not for us, but are quite content to keep on spending a fortnight, a month or two there at a time.
I was answering a UK retired person’s question on the best place to retire to, and answered based on my own opinion and experience. For some, like yourself, it’s only ever a holiday destination, and that’s fine.

I thought of alternatives before and tried some, but found that I preferred Spain. I did try the US (that came close), Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Holland and a few other places, but Spain was my personal preference.

I’m not saying it’s perfect, far from it, but it suits me.
HBG is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2009, 12:32 pm
  #89  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
agoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by HBG
.

I’m not saying it’s perfect, far from it, but it suits me.
I was answering to your comment, "The trouble is, Spain is such a perfect destination, especially for retired Brits". If it is for you, that's great. Friends of ours have had a holiday home there for nearly 20 years, and finally moved over to another house about 3 years ago, and so far they are also completely happy there, so I agree, it can be the answer for many. My friend knows of my love of the Spanish language (we went to the same classes for many years) and that I have visited Spain many dozens of times, so she finds it strange that I don't want to move out there! She's forever contacting me, telling me about the ideal house she has found for me.
agoreira is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2009, 5:27 pm
  #90  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 985
Lenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond reputeLenox has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

'Paradise Lost' (and other similar shows) have been on the British televisions a number of times and now the Brits must be pretty much aware that buying in Spain (a European country in the twenty-first century) is - let us say - rather a fraught and questionable idea.
It's true that a lot of Brits want out of the UK - understandably so - but there are other destinations. They aren't, after all, looking for El Greco, Goya and Gaudí, but cheap plonk and a terrace with a decent view of the sunset.
Spain, with its dreadful reputation for fraud, corruption, 'illegal builds', demolitions, 'land grab', crooked lawyers, promoters and mayors, has shot itself in the foot (there are, after all - and according to the Junta de Andalucía - some 60,000 illegal homes in the autonomy). Unemployment is 30% in Almería thanks to the demolition of Len and Helen Prior's house back in January 2007, and the problems in Albox, Cantoria (Paradise Lost), Zurgena, Vera, Arboleas and other towns. Chiclana, Marbella, the Axarquia and others round out Andalucía. Catral, San Fulgencio and so on in Alicante...
There is a 'fine mess' and the Spanish media are buggered if they will discuss it.
The music played, tea was served, and the Titanic slid gently under the waves...
Lenox is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.