jackytoo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ur-claims.html

steviedeluxe

There were similar claims made about a supplier in Brazil a couple of years back - Inditex moved fast to change the workers' conditions.

Hardly "the secret" though is it? Apple have been in the news several times over their China work places. And do you really think Primark or even M&S don't outsource?

In fact Inditex actually strive to come the other way, in order to have a quicker supply chain.

http://www.economist.com/node/21551063

I'm not sure there is a "secret". Ok, they sell fashionable clothes at the right price, and make sure they are stocked up in time. And they are flavour of the month. But they can't stay up there for ever, someone else will be along soon..

Dick Dasterdly

There you go Stevie lad, there's Zaras hidden reason for success.

Well you did ask.

“We found men and children who lived in places where they worked."
“They were not registered and they were living in terrible conditions. They had no official documents and were held against their will, they were not allowed to leave their workplaces without permission".


”Zara is part of Inditex, the Spanish company controlled by the billionaire Amancio Ortega."



I wonder what the Spanish people think of Ortega now ?

I bet there's quite a few without a job or a peseta to scratch their backsides, would gladly string him by his goolies from the nearest lamp-post.

notacontrathinker

Down in Tordera, about 60 clicks north of Barcelona, they have just completed a huge factory for Inditex. I can see it from my house.

They are advertising for machinists in the local papers as well as for fashion designers from all over Europe. There was one of them on this site asking about where to live in Tordera, which led me to join BE but too late to be of help.

I went down to have a look around, and saw that there was a really big full car park at the back, and that there were Russian lorries parked nose to tail in the side streets.

Ain't nobody stringing up nobody by the goolies hereabouts.

johnnyone

If we looked into most high street retailers similar allegations can be made.
Does anybody remember M&S's proud boast that 90% of all its cloths were manufactured in the UK? (The early sixties?)
I think the rest came from Israel.

Dick Dasterdly

Very true, I've made numerous posts on the same topic myself, especially with regard to instances in both China and India, mostly involving US multinational companies.

All of them an absolute disgrace in this day and age and certainly in no way justification for it occurring with regard to Spanish companies or any others.

amideislas

Sorry, but this smells eerily like a witch hunt.

In the "old days" if you started a business and made it a success, it was a good thing.

Today, it seems the mindset is that you're just dandy as long as you are struggling and unable to achieve success. But if you somehow manage to cross that line, you quickly become a greedy criminal, and every effort should be made to expose your dirty criminal secrets, even if you have to make them up. Besides, it makes for great headlines, and that sells newspapers.

Today, we all know it's quite challenging to establish and build a successful business (honest or not), in the event that anyone manages to do so, one must assume they achieved it through some sort of unethical and shady means. Just being successful alone makes it questionable, and encourages investigation into what criminal activity the successful business is engaging in to facilitate their success.

With all the regulations and restrictions, demand for high wages and benefits, and all the other hurdles imposed on entrepreneurs nowadays, I'd have to believe that it would indeed be quite difficult to establish build a successful business without appearing foul in some way, and having to defend yourself against it.

So, I can't help but believe that all those people who'd choose to demean success rather than celebrate it, should be a lot happier now that it's much harder to become successful at anything, and should be quite content with our declining prosperity.

EMR

It may just be that more information is available or that consumers are becoming more aware but the views that " so long as it is cheap enough and easily available I do not care where and how it is made " are changing.
Ikea has had to clean up its image. Apple is trying and failing. Should success be built on the back or apalling working conditions and wages and should such success be applauded, I hope not.
But change is happening albeit slowly, consumer pressure on companies to change their working pratices plus the higher expectations in previously cheap manufacturing countries will force more manufacturing to return to their original countries. M&S is a good example, a few years ago many of their shoes were made in Asia, now Portugal and Italy are scources of product.
Unfortunatley too many EU regs and local beaurocracy continues to stifle the growth of and return of maufacturing to Europe,

Dick Dasterdly

It's a very sad world we live in, if a company can't be successful without sinking to those depths, which should have been left behind at least a century ago.

Personally I don't believe it's necessary to do so, for a company to be able to celebrate success.
The profit margin would no doubt be slightly less, but at least they could hold their heads up high.

It's a sad state of affairs when pure greed for maximum profit at ANY COST TO HUMAN DIGNITY take over to that extent and companies sink into the gutter by exploiting slave and child labour.

Personally, I'm shocked that anyone on this forum can attempt to justify it for any reason at all.

amideislas

Agreed, but that must assume that this sensationalist article is actually true. And even if there is some truth in it, is Zara actually intentionally enslaving people (as the story implicates)? Or is someone in Argentina doing it entirely without Zara's knowledge (much easier to get away with)? Our assumption is that Zara knows the whole story and is complicit, but I'd argue that in reality, very few educated, successful entrepreneurs would actually intentionally engage in this sort of thing. Besides, if it gets out, it's very, very bad for business, as you can see.

Witch hunt, me thinks.

Dick Dasterdly

Ah, there you go again.

As far as I'm concerned if there is a witch hunt then it's against ALL of the witches involved in such despicable practices, as I've brought this issue up a number of times previously regarding instances involving other companies in China and India for example.

For these companies to repeatedly try pleading ignorance is absolutely pathetic. I have little doubt they know precisely whats going on and in any event why can't they use just a miniscule amount of their massive profits to get off their backsides and ensure their products are being sourced in a decent and dignified manner ?

Basically they couldn't care a toss, as long as it doesn't hit the headlines and they can continue to maximise their profits regardless of how it's done.

I believe Apple were mentioned for example, though I've no idea under what circumstances.
There is a company with unique and very desirable products which has been able to stick almost any price label they wished on their boxes in recent years, knowing full well that joe public will still readily cough up the necessary, so why on earth should such as they they need to stoop to such depths,... if indeed it is the case ?

There surely must be tens of thousands, maybe millions of companies operating successfully worldwide who get by without sinking to those levels as previously described.

amideislas

Can't speak for Zara, but I know Apple spends millions on vendor compliance enforcement. Apple's vendor compliance demands are amongst the most demanding of all the big players. Not because they are forced to - they could easily look the other way and get away with it for the most part - but because it's the responsible thing to do.

I've been an entrepreneur and built successful businesses. I've had the privilege and honour of knowing and working very closely with many other successful entrepreneurs (a few household names), and I can say with full confidence that the vast majority of those in business, then and now, truly are decent, honest, and responsible contributors to society, with absolutely no ill intent whatsoever. Many, if not most, routinely (and often, quietly) contribute their time and money to numerous worthy causes without asking for anything in return, Yet every one of them have been subject to varying degrees of accusations and criticism for their "unethical" successes at some time in their career.

I take much offence to articles like this. Their purpose isn't to expose wrongdoing. This, like so much sensationalist writ we must endure these days, are craftily written to sell newspapers by inciting emotional outrage against anyone who manages to prosper more than the reader (tapping our jealousy emotions), and justifying it by blaming all the world's woes on those who in reality, most oft contribute the most toward what's good about it.

Having said that, there is more than a fair share of wrongdoing in this world, and I am also a believer that the press is our only saviour against it. I only wish that we, the population, would finally aspire to hold them to a higher standard.

jackytoo

I am sure most of the large companies do it. Can't see how it can be a witch hunt as many other companies have been featured in the press doing the same. Even if all the companies do it, does 2 wrongs make a right now and exonerate Zara

Interesting as I seem to remember a discussion on this forum when a certain person said most of their stuff was produced in Spain

Dick Dasterdly

For sure they do and for me it's one case where the press can rightfully claim do a good job by bringing it into the public eye.

If they can easily find out what's going on, then I have no doubt that the multinationals with all the vast resources and finance at their disposal could easily to likewise,.................if they truly wanted to that is ?

amideislas

I'm certain that most companies seek to minimise their costs, and when vendor a can offer them product-x at 30% less cost than vendor b, even when guaranteed that product-x will be responsibly sourced (even if they don't actually live up to that), then I needn't explain that logic.

I think if you go to Eroski and a can of beans is €3, and at Lidl, the same brand of beans is €1.50, you might also consider the Lidl beans, or if you feel particularly morally responsible at that moment, you may rationalise to pay €3 on moral grounds.

Therein lies the problem. WE won't work in a factory for less than, say, €15 per hour, 38 hour work weeks, 6 weeks of holiday, 14-month work year, Christmas bonus, etc..... In fact in some cases, it might not even be legal to accept less.

But at the same time, we equally want everything we buy to be inexpensive, and further, we prefer all the cheap stuff we want to be made in factories where people like us work, receiving all the cushy benefits we would demand.

Further, we want those businesses who sell us all this stuff at low prices, to pay much higher taxes than we do. After all, they're making all that profit by selling us all that stuff at cheap prices and paying their staff generous wages and benefits.

Then, when they discover it all doesn't reckon out, they move parts of their operation to places where people are delighted to get the work (excluding the obvious slave conditions alleged here), we scream bloody murder about "outsourcing" to get cheaper labour.

I don't know. I tried to reckon it out, but my calculator exploded.