Under European law it is an offence to restrict sales of duty paid cigarettes to less than 800 per person. In Gibraltar that limit is set to a maximum of 1000 cigarettes.

If so most of the cigarettes are going out by sea and not across the frontier, so what is Spain moaning at???

Don't know about 'most' - Fred??

Anyway do we think that cruisers are likely to top up on cheap fags and fuel?

They are moaning about the ones that are smuggled into Spain, by Spaniards, as you well know. The lost tax revenue runs into millions.

I'm glad we agree it is the Spanish who are doing the smuggling

Let's just clear up the territorial waters bit. There were no such thing as territorial waters at that time. Spain didn't have any - no-one did - so it's hardly surprising they weren't included. The concept of territorial waters came well after that.

Gibraltar is entitled to territorial waters in exactly the same way as any other maritime territory. It's a big red herring that Spain always brings up but seems strangely reluctant to contest in an international court.

Gibraltarians at least are able to vote in the EU referendum - not so us expats I think...

Under the Cordoba agreement with the PSOE it was agreed amongst other things to build a joint use airport, Gib built their part. The Spanish part is still waste land

Were exactly was the frontier in 1713? both Gib and Spain have now built up the areas adjacent to the present frontier.There was one report that at the time of the installation of the fence itself agreed by both parties, that Spain did complain that the fence was 1 metre into Spanish territory, countered by Britain that the agreement was that the line was to be in front of the British soldiers standing at the frontier. The soldiers of course had their guns resting in front of them and this was the cause of the 1 meter discrepancy.

I posted earlier this present spat was the result of Spanish fishermen ( basically one boat ) fishing in Gib waters strongly supported by numerous GC vessels at tremendous cost to Spain. Well this fisherman was in court last week charged with illegal fishing. He pleaded guilty

If the belief seriously was that the waters were Spanish why did he not use that in some form of defence.

The Mayor of La Línea, Gemma Araujo, has said that although she respects the EC's decision that there's no evidence Spain's frontier checks infringe EU law, she does not agree with it. She says it's not normal for people to have to queue for over two hours at the frontier, when the usual waiting time has historically been around 20 minutes. The Mayor insists that the queues are disproportionate and that those worst affected are the linenses.

That's also the view of the President of the Association of Spanish Workers in Gibraltar, ASCTEG. Salvador Molina says the EC experts should have come unannounced to carry out their inspection, adding that it's now time for Campo citizens to make their feelings known.

In contrast, the EC's decision has been welcomed by Spain's Deputy Prime Minister, Soraya Saenz de Santamaría, who asserted that Brussels has cleared her Government of any wrongdoing in relation to the frontier checks.

http://www.gbc.gi/news/2794/araujo-%...hecks-decision

Words from the Chief Minister

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuitJ...ature=youtu.be

Just to make it clear, I don't take Spain's side on the issue of Gibraltar, especially not the attitude of the present government. I know they are trying to make trouble. I also know why the Gibraltarians hate Spain, and they are entitled to self-determination and to stay "British" if that's what they want.

BUT I would like Gibraltar to be a full member of the European Union (with obvious exemptions for thing like contributions to the common agricultural policy fund), and for everyone to stop bitching and start collaborating.

Now where's that flying pig thingy?, Ah, found it.

I could not agree more, Gib should follow the Uk and sign up to and adopt all the UK rules on customs and taxation.
You either want to be 100% part of the UK and be entitled to full UK support or continue to endure the problems with Spain , giving them excuses to act the way they do.

Should the UK referendum on EU membership ever take place then I can assure you I am voting to be out, with or without flying pigs. Or should that be piigs?

OK lets take a look at the situation if Gibraltar was a full member of the EU and Schengen.

1) There should be no frontier checks of any kind, so total freedom of movement of people and their goods.

2) Gib would have to implement VAT at a minimum level of 15%

How would this affect cigarettes.?

At the moment there is a legal limit of 200 per person per month into Spain.
This would increase to 1000 per trip with no restrictions on the number of trips anyone could make.

Therefore the increase in the movement of cigarettes could increase astronomically.

The price:- Tax on cigarettes in Gib is well in excess of 15% so there should be no need for the retail price to change, but due to the increased sales bought about by the ease of movement the price could well go down.The government could lower the tobacco tax levied and still maintain it's income.

How would this affect Spain, well it would destroy the tobacco market of legitimate sales in Spain and cause financial problems for the already struggling government.

How would it affect Spanish residents, well the government would have to recoup it's losses from somewhere.

Agreed - it would all be good for Gib and turn out bad for Spain so why not do it?

I would prefer an interim solution of making the price of tobacco the same in Gib and Spain although as we have said even if the cross border trade in tobacco was stopped they would probably just find another excuse to perpetuate the chaos.

In the video you posted Picardo makes noises about more controls on the sale of tobacco but only really of a 'cosmetic' nature and he also admits (what we all know) that these wouldn't make any difference anyway as the border queues are in fact political.

I still think that whatever Gib can practically do will not make any difference to the situation. It is beyond their control.

Maybe an initiative by the ayuntamiento and businesses in La Linea and the Campo might be an avenue to pursue?

Well our friendly next door neighbour is up to his illegal tricks again

Both the Royal Gibraltar Police (RGP) and the Royal Navy yesterday dealt with an incursion by the Guardia Civil in Sandy Bay,

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31690

A Spanish survey vessel carried out oceanographic work for over seven hours in British Gibraltar Territorial Waters on Monday, repeatedly defying warnings from the Royal Navy.

http://gbc.gi/news/2796/spanish-surv...braltar-waters

And again this morning, the Ramon Margalef followed by HMS Sabre followed by the GC.