Fredbargate

So you cannot prove you are British

Garbatellamike

of course he can just answer the following question. Many people think there are 3 great Universities in Britain but in fact there are only 2 - which one is not a great University, Oxford, Cambridge or Hull?

worked for Blackadder

Fredbargate

I do not particularly want the UK to incur any costs helping me or any other Gibraltarian out.

All we want is for Spain to honour it's treaties, unfortunately the most important of these was signed with Britain which unfortunately puts Britain in a position of incurring responsibilities

However if the UN did it's business correctly it would relieve Britain of these responsibilities.

Just to enlighten you, when I and many of my friends moved to Gibraltar it was one of the highest taxed countries in Europe. However due to good government it has managed to bring those taxes down unlike many other ill run countries, for example the UK which is still increasing it's debt burden.

Well as only British citizens are eligible to vote in Gibraltar everyone who has a say in the future of Gibraltar can show a genuine link with Britain.

EMR

I see nothing wrong with this scenario. The UK changes the status of GiB to that of any English county with representation in Parliament. GiB then falls under all UK laws. Tax rates and regulations are the same as the UK. How many Gibraltarians would vote for that and become true Brits ??

Fredbargate

You would see nothing wrong with Gib being handed over to Spain, because you do not believe in the will of the people or democracy.

Why not give us independence ????

As for true Brits, our passports state that we are British Citizens which I believe is the same as the passport of Brits living in the UK

However you are still to prove you are British.

What do you class as UK laws and taxes?

Those of England?, Scotland?, Wales? or Northern Ireland?

Fredbargate

Picardo Calls Out 'British Controlled Spanish Territory' Faux Pas

Monday, 15 December 2014 16:13

In response to an article written in Irish Independent Group publication, The Argus, reporting on Irish bookmaker Boylesports move to Gibraltar, the Chief Minister has corrected the journalist’s comment that Gibraltar is a ‘British controlled Spanish Territory’.

The article details the move of Boylesports remote operations, and a few staff members to Gibraltar, the company formally held their operations in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

In his letter, addressed to the Editor, Mr. Picardo insisted that the correspondent is ‘a mere 300 years out of date as the Rock's population are very proud to have been British since 1713 by Treaty, although Gibraltar was conquered by an Anglo-Dutch force in 1704.’

He further touched upon Gibraltar’s booming economy and low rate of unemployment, when addressing her comparison with Spain.

Mr. Picardo concluded his letter by saying, ‘for the clarification of your readers, Gibraltar is proud to be an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom. Our modern constitution gives us control over all domestic matters whilst Defence and External (but not EU) Relations remain the responsibility of the UK.

Perhaps your Business Correspondent would like to come out and see our vibrant nation for herself? We would be delighted to make her most welcome, despite the obvious 'faux pas'.’

Dec 15 - Picardo Calls Out 'British Controlled Spanish Territory' Faux Pas

MikeJ

So you, by implication, agree that if Spain had a bigger army than Gibraltar/UK then they would have a right of conquest? I seem to recall that Hitler had the same notion - and maybe Putin. Sounds like a recipe for endless wars.

Treaties are supposed to seal the peace between civilised nations forever, not just provide breathing space until the bigger bully has a bigger army again - that would be an armistice.

EMR

Gibraltar is only " British " because we had a bigger army and Navy than Spain and defeated Spanish attempts to take the Rock back,
These post date the famous treaty that Fred keeps on about which invalidates any argument that Spain ever had any intentions of keeping to it.
Just like the 100,s of treaties we Brits made and then tore up during our history.
Hitler lost because he invaded Russiam European history and the position of the Rock would have been very different if he had not.
Franco would have joined Hitler and there would have been nothing the UK as the only power resisting could have done about it.

Like it or not History proves one thing and that is " might it right ".

Fredbargate

So you admit that the ROCK belongs to Britain

EsuriJohn

Not bigger just better!

IamStu

The indigenous people of Gib are Spanish.
Your comment "right of conquest" has no meaning in it´s context, other than to drag into your diatribe Adolf Hitler.
I´m guessing one has their tongue firmly in their cheek?!

la mancha

'Like it or not History proves one thing and that is " might it right "'

Vietnam? Afghanistan? Probably a lot more but haven't time to Google.

EMR

.

The examples you give prove ,( thank god ) that a limited conflict will always fail to achieve its aims. We Brits did not build an empire fighting limited wars. We used machine guns and modern weaponry against the spear waving owners of the lands we colonised. Plus of course we had god on our side and we were civilising the poor heathens.

Fredbargate

I suppose that depends on how you define indigenous.

30,000 odd years ago Gibraltar was inhabited by Neanderthals, in fact the first discovery of a Neanderthal was in Gorham's Cave on the south-facing coast of Gibraltar some years before the discovery in Neanderthal.

During ancient times, Gibraltar was regarded by the peoples of the Mediterranean as a place of religious and symbolic importance. The Phoenicians were present for several centuries, apparently using Gorham's Cave as a shrine to the genius loci of the place, as did the Carthaginians and Romans after them

Then the Visigoths

The Moors invaded in 711 led by Tariq ibn Ziyad after whom Gibraltar was named Tariq's Mountain ( Gibel Tariq )

On 20 August 1462, Juan Alonso de Guzmán, 1st Duke of Medina Sidonia succeeded in capturing Gibraltar ( But was he Spanish? did Spain exist at that time? )

August 1704 and Gibraltar was taken again by a combined force of Catalans, Dutch and Britains. ( Were Catalans Spanish? ) and the Spaniards? ran away to set up San Roque who's motto is:
"Muy Noble y Muy Leal ciudad de San Roque, donde reside la de Gibraltar" (Very Noble and Very Loyal city of San Roque, where Gibraltar lives on)

The Spanish appear to have only occupied Gibraltar for 242 years, is that long enough for them to qualify as indigenous???

After 1704 many people have settled in Gibraltar, notably from Genoa and Malta along with British and other European countries.

There is a fair contingent of Moroccans here, so are they the indigenous people? and of course Spaniards generally through intermarriage across the frontier in friendlier times.

So I ask again who qualifies as the indigenous population?

IamStu

Not the bloody British that´s for sure