Gibraltar 2

Old Dec 19th 2023, 8:33 am
  #2206  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Lou71
Fred, as you know, I'm extremely pro Gibraltar and enjoy visiting there but I think you are going to have to compromise on this one. I honestly don't think it matters if Spanish border force controls immigration in Gibraltar airport. Why don't you open the airport on the Spanish side so that people visiting Spain can use that exit and then you can have additional checks (after Schengen clearance) at the Gibraltar exit. There is not enough airport traffic for it to become congested. You cannot realistically expect Gibraltar to be allowed to manage the incoming EES/ETIAS systems when they go live.

The only other option is just leave the border it as it is now. It works well enough with very few delays.
Lou I do not make these decisions I only report the situation.

However there are thousands of Gibraltar residents now unable to cross into Spain.

If I had my way I would treat the Spanish in the same way they treat us.

Then let the Spanish authorities deal with the extra unemployment in the Campo de Gibraltar
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 10:56 am
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Lou I do not make these decisions I only report the situation.

However there are thousands of Gibraltar residents now unable to cross into Spain.

If I had my way I would treat the Spanish in the same way they treat us.

Then let the Spanish authorities deal with the extra unemployment in the Campo de Gibraltar
I know you don't personally make decisions Fred but Gibraltar is a very small place and don't you have citizens' assemblies where you can make suggestions?

Having crossed the border between Spain and Gibraltar hundreds of times and recently just for fun, I still don't understand what the problem is and why Gibraltarians cannot enter Spain. I just flash my Irish passport card and get waved through. I have seen people in Gibraltar registered cars holding what looks like ID cards out of the window and being waved through. .
What exactly is the problem? Why are they being refused entry into Spain?

By the way, French border officials will be managing the EES and Etias systems at Dover.

Last edited by Lou71; Dec 19th 2023 at 11:01 am.
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Lou71
I know you don't personally make decisions Fred but Gibraltar is a very small place and don't you have citizens' assemblies where you can make suggestions?

Having crossed the border between Spain and Gibraltar hundreds of times and recently just for fun, I still don't understand what the problem is and why Gibraltarians cannot enter Spain. I just flash my Irish passport card and get waved through. I have seen people in Gibraltar registered cars holding what looks like ID cards out of the window and being waved through. .
What exactly is the problem? Why are they being refused entry into Spain?

By the way, French border officials will be managing the EES and Etias systems at Dover.
Any Gibraltarian I.E. anyone with a red I.D. card can cross into Spain.
Unfortunately all other Gibraltar Residents are refused entry unless they have a passport from an E.U. country.
So someone from London, Derby, Bristol etc will be refused entry into Spain across the frontier at La Linea the only frontier between Gibraltar and Spain.
Wereas Dover is not the only entry point into or out of the EU to UK.
As for what the problem is ask a Spaniard.
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 6:43 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Any Gibraltarian I.E. anyone with a red I.D. card can cross into Spain.
Unfortunately all other Gibraltar Residents are refused entry unless they have a passport from an E.U. country.
So someone from London, Derby, Bristol etc will be refused entry into Spain across the frontier at La Linea the only frontier between Gibraltar and Spain.
Wereas Dover is not the only entry point into or out of the EU to UK.
As for what the problem is ask a Spaniard.
​​​
OK, I see what you mean, that is a problem for non Gibraltarian nationals resident in Gibraltar and the people who sail through the border in Gibraltar registered cars are Gibraltarian nationals who have de facto EU freedom of movement.

So people landing at Gib airport who have accommodation booked in Spain get through the border no problem if they have proof but if they are staying in Gib with no accommodation booked in Spain they are refused entry? It sounds like these people are falling over on reason for visiting.

How does this affect you when you visit Portugal Fred? Do you qualify for a Gibraltarian passport?

​​​​​​
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 7:13 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Such a simple solution, staring us all in the face, anybody guess what it is?
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 7:28 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Finknottle
Such a simple solution, staring us all in the face, anybody guess what it is?
Yep, I've got it, the UK needs to rejoin the single market.

It's going to happen sooner or later so just get on with it and do it now before even more damage is done.

Full EU membership is completely out for many years but rejoining the single market is doable.
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 7:32 pm
  #2212  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Finknottle
Such a simple solution, staring us all in the face, anybody guess what it is?
Is it become a Gib national?
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 9:01 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Lou71
​​​
How does this affect you when you visit Portugal Fred? Do you qualify for a Gibraltarian passport?
​​​​​​
I am a red ID card carrying Gibraltarian
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 9:24 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Lou71
Yep, I've got it, the UK needs to rejoin the single market.

It's going to happen sooner or later so just get on with it and do it now before even more damage is done.

Full EU membership is completely out for many years but rejoining the single market is doable.
Originally Posted by Red Eric
Is it become a Gib national?
No, much simpler.
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Old Dec 20th 2023, 6:17 am
  #2215  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Lou71
Yep, I've got it, the UK needs to rejoin the single market.

It's going to happen sooner or later so just get on with it and do it now before even more damage is done.

Full EU membership is completely out for many years but rejoining the single market is doable.
Note the Spanish are taking their frustration out on the section of Britains who as one boring poster on this thread keeps reminding us voted 96% in favour of remaining in the EU.
Or are they working to a different agenda?
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Old Dec 20th 2023, 8:02 am
  #2216  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

In an attempt to maintain some degree of consistency , the EU gets itself into knots trying. Just one look at the existing land borders with the EU shows how complex and varied they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extern...European_Union
The above mentions Cyprus, Melilla and French Guiana- now they are complicated. Some degree of pragmatism is required to operate the so called rules, sensibly. Unfortunately I son’t think Spain has a word for pragmatism or doesn’t use it very often. Surprisingly there is little mention of the land border where you can go back and forth as you please within no papers at all.
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Old Dec 20th 2023, 10:55 am
  #2217  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Any Gibraltarian I.E. anyone with a red I.D. card can cross into Spain.
Unfortunately all other Gibraltar Residents are refused entry unless they have a passport from an E.U. country.
So someone from London, Derby, Bristol etc will be refused entry into Spain across the frontier at La Linea the only frontier between Gibraltar and Spain.
Wereas Dover is not the only entry point into or out of the EU to UK.
As for what the problem is ask a Spaniard.
As been posted above, this started happening in October 2021 when the UK stopped accepting Spanish ID cards so Spain acted reciprocally for British citizens. Also as the port and airport don't follow Schengen rules, Spain has to run checks on the Gibraltar/Spain border. That's all there is to it.

If you want no checks on the border between Spain and Gibraltar then the port and airport have to follow Schengen rules but as Gibraltar is not a Schengen country then Spain and Frontex have to be there.
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Old Dec 20th 2023, 11:57 am
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by DLC
As been posted above, this started happening in October 2021 when the UK stopped accepting Spanish ID cards so Spain acted reciprocally for British citizens. Also as the port and airport don't follow Schengen rules, Spain has to run checks on the Gibraltar/Spain border. That's all there is to it.

If you want no checks on the border between Spain and Gibraltar then the port and airport have to follow Schengen rules but as Gibraltar is not a Schengen country then Spain and Frontex have to be there.
I'm happy to have checks but not the total exclusion that is being applied to some sections of the population at the moment.
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Old Dec 20th 2023, 5:11 pm
  #2219  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
I'm happy to have checks but not the total exclusion that is being applied to some sections of the population at the moment.
Total exclusion? Do you mean no Briton can enter Spain from Gibraltar? Really?
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Old Dec 21st 2023, 2:34 pm
  #2220  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by DLC
Total exclusion? Do you mean no Briton can enter Spain from Gibraltar? Really?
No


Last edited by Rosemary; Dec 21st 2023 at 2:57 pm. Reason: Unnecessary
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