Gibraltar 2

Old Nov 25th 2023, 2:32 pm
  #2146  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by astera
First of all it's independent, not independant. Secondly, it would be quite funny to see all 6.8 km2 (with a big rock taking up a huge chunk in the middle) become a sovereign state of its own. I thought Catalonia trying to do this is ludicrous but Gibraltar would bring the level of farce to a completely new level.

Let me think, new passports, embassies around the world, foreign relations, etc. etc. etc., or would the UK have to continue covering virtually everything for them?

Personally I don't think the status will ever change. How would the Gibraltar economy function if they had to adhere to the same laws as the rest of the UK or the rest of Spain. It only functions for the same reasons as other places that are dependent on the "offshore financial sector."

Plus, unlike Spain or France for instance, does the UK have any territories that are not right on its doorstep but are still treated as an integral part of the UK?
Smallest country in the world is the Vatican City.
Should Gib become one it would simply make its own rules.
Economy (?) seems to be doing ok at present.
Why would it need embassies everywhere.
Notice you like to seize on a typo/ spelling mistake to virtual pet yourself.
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Old Nov 25th 2023, 4:16 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by astera
First of all it's independent, not independant. Secondly, it would be quite funny to see all 6.8 km2 (with a big rock taking up a huge chunk in the middle) become a sovereign state of its own. I thought Catalonia trying to do this is ludicrous but Gibraltar would bring the level of farce to a completely new level.

Let me think, new passports, embassies around the world, foreign relations, etc. etc. etc., or would the UK have to continue covering virtually everything for them?

Personally I don't think the status will ever change. How would the Gibraltar economy function if they had to adhere to the same laws as the rest of the UK or the rest of Spain. It only functions for the same reasons as other places that are dependent on the "offshore financial sector."

Plus, unlike Spain or France for instance, does the UK have any territories that are not right on its doorstep but are still treated as an integral part of the UK?
I think you are forgetting about Monaco... A small or smaller country than the rock and doing pretty well...

With all the online gambling companies based there - I see no problem with the status quo if they were to secede from the island in the north sea...
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Old Nov 25th 2023, 4:28 pm
  #2148  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by VFR
Smallest country in the world is the Vatican City.
Yes, and why exactly is this well-known fact mentioned in this discussion? Are you trying to say that Gib could emulate... the Vatican?

My oh my this thread is getting stranger by the day...

Originally Posted by VFR
Should Gib become one it would simply make its own rules.
It's not part of Spain or the UK so isn't it making its own rules right NOW?

Originally Posted by VFR
Why would it need embassies everywhere.
Foreign relations, representation in other countries, promoting trade. You know, something that REAL countries do and have.

Then there are your own citizens who might require consular assistance overseas. Maybe a lost passport here or there, or trouble with the authorities after breaking the law? "If there's something weird, and it don't look good, who ya gonna call? British embassy!"

Would the UK literally have to do everything for Gibraltar or could Gibraltar handle everything on its own? Just curious what your thoughts are.

Originally Posted by VFR
Notice you like to seize on a typo/ spelling mistake to virtual pet yourself.
Really? I thought this was the first time I did that and only because the word "independence" was so central to the theme. I certainly don't go around pointing to spelling mistakes everywhere...
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Old Nov 25th 2023, 9:51 pm
  #2149  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

First of all it's independent, not independant. Secondly, it would be quite funny to see all 6.8 km2 (with a big rock taking up a huge chunk in the middle) become a sovereign state of its own. I thought Catalonia trying to do this is ludicrous but Gibraltar would bring the level of farce to a completely new level. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

That is what you posted.
So I replied about the Vatican which is a tidy bit smaller.


Originally Posted by astera
Yes, and why exactly is this well-known fact mentioned in this discussion? Are you trying to say that Gib could emulate... the Vatican?

My oh my this thread is getting stranger by the day...
.
So in a typical side stepping / goal shifting move that is so common nowadays you respond (are you trying to say)
No read what I wrote not what you think I wrote, or are you trying to to put words into my mouth.

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Old Nov 26th 2023, 9:35 am
  #2150  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by astera

Let me think, new passports,

Personally I don't think the status will ever change. How would the Gibraltar economy function if they had to adhere to the same laws as the rest of the UK or the rest of Spain.
First of all I have a Gibraltar passport

Gibraltar also has it's own Law Architects.
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Old Nov 29th 2023, 1:10 pm
  #2151  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by VFR
So I replied about the Vatican which is a tidy bit smaller.
Sorry, didn't mean to heat up the discussion like that.

In my eyes the Vatican is like a giant embassy and at the same time the corporate HQ of the worlds' biggest franchise (take McDonald's # of outlets and multiply it by 5-6 times). They've got dinero coming in from virtually EVERYWHERE on Earth.

Now Gibraltar is mostly dependent on not being part of the UK or Spain, because if it were then it's status as an offshore financial centre would cease to exist. So it will forever hang in the balance and maintain the status quo. But at the same time it relies on the UK for virtually everything as full independence would be a massive undertaking.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing because I don't know how the economy would look if everything from financial services to gambling had to be run under UK or Spanish law. I don't suppose the island could survive economically by focusing on tourism?

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
First of all I have a Gibraltar passport

Gibraltar also has it's own Law Architects.
I love how wikipedia call it the "Gibraltar variant British passport." Full independence would mean new passports, not ones issued by the UK.

As for laws that's what keeps the place going imo, and why they (or rather you) probably want to maintain the status quo. Which is understandable.
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Old Nov 29th 2023, 1:35 pm
  #2152  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Can anyone in the know enlighten me about the 'imminent' signing of agreement by EU and UK over Gibraltar, according to the Spanish foreign minister and widely reported in the news?
Have they really sorted out disagreements over who should man immigration post at the airport? And delay at the land border?
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Old Nov 29th 2023, 2:10 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

I have a simple view on having access to Gibraltar. I used to shop there very regularly but that has all changed over the last few years and that is for totally non political reasons.

Once Iceland and M&S opened on the Costa and food ranges in Mercadona improved there is no conceivable reason for me to go there.

As far as I am concerned, whether it is part of Spain or the UK is of no consequence to me. Personally I think it should be handed back to Spain. I cannot see that it has much value to anyone.
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Old Nov 29th 2023, 3:08 pm
  #2154  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Joppa
Can anyone in the know enlighten me about the 'imminent' signing of agreement by EU and UK over Gibraltar, according to the Spanish foreign minister and widely reported in the news?
Have they really sorted out disagreements over who should man immigration post at the airport? And delay at the land border?
Spain is very keen to sign their document that they call an agreement because it has all the clauses Spain wants.

Very different to Gibraltar and the UK's idea of an agreement.
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Old Nov 29th 2023, 3:45 pm
  #2155  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

We had a very enjoyable trip to Gibraltar on Monday. We even found time to drive full circle around the rock.

No border queues whatsoever and Spanish border force seemed to be in a good mood. My partner didn't feel like walking back in after we had heaved ourselves and all our shopping out so I left them in the car and walked back in myself. It was a absolute doddle and I just held up my Irish passport card which is just like an EU ID card.

If an agreement can't be reached on Schengen, just leave the border arrangements exactly as they are now. There are very few UK nationals living in Spain now so the border traffic is much reduced. Workers on foot get through very easily right now.

I don't agree that Gibraltar should be handed back to Spain and neither do the thousands of Spaniards who work there. It's a unique place with a charm of its own and as I've said on here before, nobody would go out and create a Gibraltar situation today but it's been there for 300 years and it is what it is so leave well alone. It's a major attraction that costs Spain nothing but creates a lot of economic activity in La Linea. If Gibraltar just turned into an extensive of La Linea it would lose its uniqueness.

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Old Nov 29th 2023, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Lou71
If an agreement can't be reached on Schengen...
I am curious how an agreement on Schengen would apply to British nationals visiting Gibraltar. Won't they then be subject to exactly the same rules as visiting other EU countries?

"Your total stay in the Schengen area must be no more than 90 days in every 180 days. It does not matter how many countries you visit."
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Old Nov 29th 2023, 5:52 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by astera
I am curious how an agreement on Schengen would apply to British nationals visiting Gibraltar. Won't they then be subject to exactly the same rules as visiting other EU countries?

"Your total stay in the Schengen area must be no more than 90 days in every 180 days. It does not matter how many countries you visit."
If Gibraltar goes ahead and joins the Schengen area then yes, UK nationals will be subjected to the 90/180 day travel restrictions. Leave voters should realise that they dumped Gibraltar in the brown stuff with Brexit and Gibraltarians need to look after themselves and their valuable cross border workers.

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people have rather foolishly been caught by surprise with said Schengen travel restrictions and the loss of EU freedom of movement.
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Old Nov 29th 2023, 6:01 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fred James
I have a simple view on having access to Gibraltar. I used to shop there very regularly but that has all changed over the last few years and that is for totally non political reasons.

Once Iceland and M&S opened on the Costa and food ranges in Mercadona improved there is no conceivable reason for me to go there.

As far as I am concerned, whether it is part of Spain or the UK is of no consequence to me. Personally I think it should be handed back to Spain. I cannot see that it has much value to anyone.
This thread was started by a Gibralter resident and posted in the Spain section of British Expats, which I guess is as good an acknowledgment as any that it belongs to Spain.

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Old Nov 29th 2023, 7:52 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Red Eric
This thread was started by a Gibralter resident and posted in the Spain section of British Expats, which I guess is as good an acknowledgment as any that it belongs to Spain.

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I first posted in the Gibraltar section.
Later B.E. did what Spain has always failed to do.
Move Gibraltar into Spain
Spain will have to make a massive shift in policy if they hope to do what B.E. have achieved.
However with Cameron who knows who he will sell out.

Last edited by Fredbargate; Nov 29th 2023 at 7:56 pm.
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Old Nov 29th 2023, 8:05 pm
  #2160  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
However with Cameron who knows who he will sell out.
You're right, after all he sold out Britain with his ridiculous referendum - oh, wait a minute.
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