Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

Exactly, we were only in the city itself. The new bits were soulless and the casco antiguo although beautiful was very touristy.

I wanted to explore neighbourhoods we could live in. I asked the people at the interview for a peaceful neighbourhood not too far from the centre and they wouldnt give me any names, just saying "it depends what you like". We went to the port where the F1 is run and that was soulless too and Malvarosa beach area was really run down. The area around the university was pretty dirty and boring.

Maybe you can live a good live in Valencia but in the day and a half we were there, unfortunately we didnt find any evidence that we'd enjoy it there, which is a shame, because I quite fancied the move

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

I gave up half way through, the forum is full of would be "psycobabblers" (nice word!) that think we'll be impressed. I reckon the amount of "psycobabble" increases with the time of day, ie evenings, as the alcohol consumption increases, so does the degree of pompous waffle.;). Queue "psycobabblers"

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

There are lots in the province, less than in other provinces.

But I meant that there are extremely few in the unexplored North of Spain, not the large cities but all the little villages. Lovely places still undiscovered. Of course there will be some, I don't intend to count them, but nothing to compare to all the Brits living in the Mediterranean coast.

And you also have lots of NATURAL green, but obviously also the weather that comes with it. I spent there many holidays as a kid, my abuelita was from a little aldea there and we could enjoy both the mountain and the beach. Lovely memories, I certainly wouldn't mind living in Asturias and if I can get it my way we'll go there often and maybe eventually to live. :thumbsup:

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

Careful, these places were discovered long ago! Either by the Phoenicians or Celts! And lots of Spanish people go to places like Llanes for a cooler more refreshing summer holiday

I know what you mean, but I do get pedantic if people describe a place as "undiscovered" just because there arent any Brits there

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

A reality check on integration in the southern half of the Alicante province, where a quarter of the population consists of expats?

The pensioners take out residencia and the padron to get free medical treatment

The early retirees don't bother, why should they?

A lot of younger families with children have gone home since this awful recession started, they can no longer afford to live in Spain. The ones in work of sorts, usually handy men of sorts, work black, all of them.

The ones with legal contracts? They're like needles in haystacks.

The expat children who have emerged from the Spanish education process are Spanish and have integrated to the nth degree. I don't know whether their quite large numbers help in the overall integration process but imagine it must.

Personally, I never think much about integration and carry on with life much as I would back in the UK. It's only on a very few occasions that I have come across any obvious anti-British feeling from the indigenous population.

I must say that when we meet Spaniards and they realise that we are pretty fluent in their language, their smiles get bigger.

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

Under my point of view you're more than integrated.

For sure you know this, but Spanish DVB (TDT in Spanish) broadcasts in dual, so most of the shows can be listened in English because most of the productions are imported from English speaking countries.

And you're absolutely right, dubbed series/movies are a real scam! This includes books and comic books. Since I started to work out my English I've re-discovered great classics.

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

Undiscovered for tourists, even Spanish tourists, I'm not talking of touristic spots. Really, unless they made roads (or even lanes) like crazy I very much doubt one can get to some remote places by car, I remember lots of non surfaced lanes and getting to places walking or with horses. They are the kind of places you need to actually look for, they are not big in maps and are difficult to find. Mind you, it's been a long time since I last went there so I don't expect things to be the same. ... Now I want to go and check!!! I guess that many of them have gone for the route of turismo rural as the surroundings are so gorgeous.

Celts, in Galicia and Asturias. My abuela was very proud of her Celtic background and told us lots and lots of stories about the Santa Compaña, the Meigas and many more when my brother and I were kids, but unfortunately I have mostly forgotten. :(

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

HBG, you ask why early retirees should bother to register as an extranjero or sign on the padron if it doesn't entitle them to free medical treatment.

Well, the first is a legal requirement and by not doing the second they deprive their local area of funding that is allocated according to the size of the town's population.

Disregarding the laws and civic obligations of your adopted country is wrong, isn't it?

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

Completely agree: It's been a long time that I try to watch films in o.v. and not only simply to learn English, I actually like to see that every actor has a different voice! As you said, there's always something missing in translation.

I also try to read in English when possible. I'm learning German but my level is still too basic and it will take me a few years to have a decent grasp of it.

LYNNXA: Completely integrated, you and your family :thumbsup:

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

They've been building roads non-stop pretty much for the past 30 years :)

My MIL tells me of the times where you could only get out of Asturias going South by horse or donkey as there were no roads through the mountains. And then some years later you had to drive through Pájares which was covered in snow for 5 months every year

However, now Asturias is full of motorways and tunnels through the mountains in every direction which makes it easy to discover and get around but of course ruins the landscape somewhat. They are plenty of tourists in Asturias and casas rurales everywhere, but still not too many to feel swamped.

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

yes, we do switch some things to English language if we want to watch them at the time they are broadcast

however - with busy lives that doesn't always fit in, so we store entire seasons sometimes to watch at our leisure:D

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

Having lived and worked in Valencia for the past 10 years or so I dont recognise your description of it at all.

A day is not enough.

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

A day is all I had! We are not all on a permanant holiday you know ;)

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

Juan why not talk about Racial Integration, as that is essentially the thread title - as opposed to Immigration, which is how the Integrators got to the country in the first place. Unless I was to play devils advocate, and start discussing the integration of lets say, VOIP into a network and the use or not of POE. Just that isnt what the OP put into the associated dialogue.

Thats OK Juan, we are entitled to differ, but as the Wiki reference says
"the development of a culture that draws on diverse traditions, rather than merely bringing a racial minority into the majority culture." That is why I say it will take centuries for integration to come about, but perhaps never be acheived. Integration means not being different, as you describe it is only acceptance, each racial grouping living together in the same land, where the indigenous majority will still call all the shots on rouning that land - vastly different.
But that is still "acceptance" rather than integration.

Being an active member of a community doesnt mean integration and may not mean acceptance if that community is a ghetto of peoples from the same homeland, sitting there like a pimple on a smooth face.

oh yes, which is why I rarely buy rounds - caught by my own once too often. But doesnt stop me from buying the bar owner a drink. Or the chef if I want to be looked after when out for a meal. It works as well.

Having experienced segregation in the US and South Africa it is not a solution, it immediately creates an "Us and Them" situation that is abhorrant and generates fear. That is not even co-existence letalone acceptance or integration.

But Juan, who is it that is at risk with the gipsies, them or the Spaniards.?
Would it be too much for both sides to give a little take a little. I think I know the answer to that one, but should be considered. To like the open country, certain music etc doesnt make a gipsy, in the same way as living in a house doesnt make a Spaniard. ISTR there is at least one block of flats in Granada's Pulianus district that is occupied by gipsies.
But how can they have their own laws.? That should not be allowed.!


the types of fusion I know of generally lead to an explosion.
Diversity is something that was thought up to cover a wider arena beyond the racial, into areas such as sexual, disability, age etc. That is something vastly different and Diversity is something that should be practiced within the community for the benefit of all before you start overlaying the racial side, which would mean all elements of the Diverse society are available to the in-comer.

Well Juan, I think you will have to have me as I am, in my 60's there isnt enough time for me to integrate seamlessly, but I will work at becoming integrated within my community for the benefit of all.

Juan, this is an interesting discussion which would perhaps one day make for a pleasant evening over a bottle or three of Rioja. The differences are there, some are small some are large, but at the end of the day we are all human beings, irrespective of where we came from, what our passport says, with many of the same beliefs.
And in that we are truly integrated, just some more than others.
Regards
Dom

Re: Define Integration. As distinct from immigration!
 

Aint it nice to now that as "fully intergrated" peeps, you now have the same status as a fully intergrated diswasher, fridge, freezer etc. Well done.:rofl::rofl:

I must get an "intergrater rater" to give me the once over.


But remember if you watch a sly bit of Corrie or Eastenders, then you could slip down to "almost, por un pelo, skin of your teeth, not intergrated.