Covid update

Old Dec 10th 2021, 9:34 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by airways View Post
I live in Spain and work in the UK. I have homes and cars in both places. I guess not everyone lives in a small box....

Okay here we go.....I have dual residence ( newbie response).
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 7:12 am
  #77  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Chipmonk View Post
Okay here we go.....I have dual residence ( newbie response).
i am sorry but your point is uttteely lost on me….
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 7:13 am
  #78  
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Talking Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Mark604 View Post
I did say, "I presume you flash your vaccination pass..." as I understood you are vaccinated and are not anti-vaxx otherwise you wouldn't be.
Natural immunity occurs not in 60% but only 23.45% of people. So out of 100,000 - 23,450 have a so called natural immunity. Another 75,655 have varying degrees of immunity and would suffer from mild to mid-range symptoms if they caught it. The remaining 895 people would suffer severe symptoms if infected.
Of the 23,450 immune people, it is not known how many have become immune due to purely being originally infected and have thus built up antibodies before the need for measurements or the measurements themselves took place, for how many it is a combination of that and a totally natural immunity, and how many haven't suffered because they solely possessed a natural immunity to many things even before the virus came into being and it just so happened they were immune to this particular virus.

However, it is known that possessing some form of immunity doesn't guarantee immunity to all and every strain that occurs.
"Mutations speculated to reduce immune recognition, such as within the spike protein (S13I, 69-70del, W152L, A222V, K417N, N439K, S477N, T478K, E484K/Q, F490S, P681H/R) and nucleoprotein (RG203KR) should be studied for reduced sensitivity to natural or vaccine-induced immunity."
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/...85-021-01633-w


Also, as shown in a study done in 2015 regarding Rubella, there are doubts in all cases of the determination of immunity to anything. This translates directly in being told you are immune to Covid as the same disciplines are used in determination of immunity and thus are open to question.
"Rubella: Pitfalls in the diagnosis and the determination of the immune status."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...86653215003340

Your figures are wrong and mine are right and I don't have to prove them to you.
I am sure you think you are…..
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 7:54 am
  #79  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by airways View Post
i am sorry but your point is uttteely lost on me….
It is just you seem to be boasting about how you are so different from the rest of us.


Last edited by Chipmonk; Dec 11th 2021 at 8:04 am.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 8:59 am
  #80  
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Default Re: Covid update

"I am sure you think you are….."

Unfortunately you think you are as well on this point. As do those opposed to the vaccination (which you are not I understand) and many others who think they are right about many subjects including flat earthers etc. You've missed the point though. The point is you come out with figures 'someone told you'. I and others wonder at the veracity of these and your reply is you don't have to prove it.
"If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs....." - which makes it understandable why you have total belief in what you were told without questioning it, like I/we are and because of that belief without taking it further, you are unable to answer more specific questions. It's the easiest thing in the world to come out with statistics (60%, 39%, 1%) but without backing that up with even a rudimentary source, in conclusion, you are unpersuasive.
Stay safe.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 9:22 am
  #81  
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Default Re: Covid update

I'm all for mandatory vaccination.

Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.

Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.

Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!

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Old Dec 11th 2021, 9:39 am
  #82  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by agree_to_disagree View Post
I'm all for mandatory vaccination.

Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.

Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.

Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!
I agree. I'm fed up with them claiming its pointless as the new variant can invade them. Sure anti-vaxers have a wide range of reasons- some are averse to injections, some are worried about new vaccines, some believe wierd conspiracy theories, some think they are in Schindler's list and some just want to cause disruption and violence. At the end of the day science has shown that vaccination at the very least lowers the chances or people requiring hospital treatment and this is what we are trying to do because then it allows very vulnerable people or people with severe illnesses to receive better care and resources and therefore survive. Antivaxers only ever consider things from the point of view of their own needs. If they believed that not using vaccines in some way saved lives or reduced pressure on public healthcare it would have more traction but they never argue like this. It is all about them and their usually lame understanding of science mixed with a proclivity toward anti- authoritism.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 2:19 pm
  #83  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Chipmonk View Post
It is just you seem to be boasting about how you are so different from the rest of us.
How do you figure that? Unless you are just a green eyed monster? Jealousy is a self damaging trait......
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 2:21 pm
  #84  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Mark604 View Post
"I am sure you think you are….."

Unfortunately you think you are as well on this point. As do those opposed to the vaccination (which you are not I understand) and many others who think they are right about many subjects including flat earthers etc. You've missed the point though. The point is you come out with figures 'someone told you'. I and others wonder at the veracity of these and your reply is you don't have to prove it.
"If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs....." - which makes it understandable why you have total belief in what you were told without questioning it, like I/we are and because of that belief without taking it further, you are unable to answer more specific questions. It's the easiest thing in the world to come out with statistics (60%, 39%, 1%) but without backing that up with even a rudimentary source, in conclusion, you are unpersuasive.
Stay safe.
I can only tell you what the research has revealed so far. I am sure that research will be released in full in due course

You may pursue your own dogmatic opinion as much as you want.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 2:50 pm
  #85  
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Default Re: Covid update

"You may pursue your own dogmatic opinion as much as you want."
My opinion is based on verifiable facts and research. Your opinion appears to be based on what some unidentifiable person told you, doesn't it?

"I can only tell you what the research has revealed so far. I am sure that research will be released in full in due course"
If you can pass on details sufficient for me to contact them in order to obtain preliminary findings, I'd be obliged. I will also ask them for when and where the research is to be published, whether peer reviewed or not. Then the issue can be settled to your satisfaction. Maybe. Unless your dogma holds you back from belief if the findings and conclusions are contrary to what you were told. If they are contrary to mine I will admit to being wrong and immediately say so. I have no problem in changing my opinion with the result of new facts. My horse in this race is accuracy.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 3:14 pm
  #86  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by agree_to_disagree View Post
I'm all for mandatory vaccination.

Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.

Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.

Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!
I don't disagree with any of what you say but how do you achieve mandatory vaccination? I keep reading about it but surely they can't physically vaccinate by force, dragging people in and forcibly sticking a needle in their arm I think there would be outrage at that even though such people are being selfish. I see the point of vaccine passports and restricting to very essentials what those that refuse to be vaccinated are allowed to do outside of their own homes. I also imagine if forced to have a vaccine against one's will many would suddenly claim to have developed some drastic side effect that needs £££££ in compensation. I just don't see it working. Encouragement including restrictions that can be enforced are the way forward and vaccine passports are part of that.
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 5:11 pm
  #87  
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Default Re: Covid update

Refusing NHS paid treatment for non jabbed who get Covid could be an option.

Covid passport or credit card before entry to hospital!!
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 5:17 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Mark604 View Post
"You may pursue your own dogmatic opinion as much as you want."
My opinion is based on verifiable facts and research. Your opinion appears to be based on what some unidentifiable person told you, doesn't it?

"I can only tell you what the research has revealed so far. I am sure that research will be released in full in due course"
If you can pass on details sufficient for me to contact them in order to obtain preliminary findings, I'd be obliged. I will also ask them for when and where the research is to be published, whether peer reviewed or not. Then the issue can be settled to your satisfaction. Maybe. Unless your dogma holds you back from belief if the findings and conclusions are contrary to what you were told. If they are contrary to mine I will admit to being wrong and immediately say so. I have no problem in changing my opinion with the result of new facts. My horse in this race is accuracy.
Knock yourself out!
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 5:19 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Fred James View Post
Refusing NHS paid treatment for non jabbed who get Covid could be an option.

Covid passport or credit card before entry to hospital!!

Except thats not how our NHS works and its also not how a a free society works........ The same could be said for smokers, drinkers and the clinically obese as they are all a self inflicted burden on the system......
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Old Dec 11th 2021, 7:06 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: Covid update

No it’s not a normal option but who knows what may become the norm?
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