Covid update
Dec 11th 2021, 7:13 am
#78
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 288
Re: Covid update
I did say, "I presume you flash your vaccination pass..." as I understood you are vaccinated and are not anti-vaxx otherwise you wouldn't be.
Natural immunity occurs not in 60% but only 23.45% of people. So out of 100,000 - 23,450 have a so called natural immunity. Another 75,655 have varying degrees of immunity and would suffer from mild to mid-range symptoms if they caught it. The remaining 895 people would suffer severe symptoms if infected.
Of the 23,450 immune people, it is not known how many have become immune due to purely being originally infected and have thus built up antibodies before the need for measurements or the measurements themselves took place, for how many it is a combination of that and a totally natural immunity, and how many haven't suffered because they solely possessed a natural immunity to many things even before the virus came into being and it just so happened they were immune to this particular virus.
However, it is known that possessing some form of immunity doesn't guarantee immunity to all and every strain that occurs.
"Mutations speculated to reduce immune recognition, such as within the spike protein (S13I, 69-70del, W152L, A222V, K417N, N439K, S477N, T478K, E484K/Q, F490S, P681H/R) and nucleoprotein (RG203KR) should be studied for reduced sensitivity to natural or vaccine-induced immunity."
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/...85-021-01633-w
Also, as shown in a study done in 2015 regarding Rubella, there are doubts in all cases of the determination of immunity to anything. This translates directly in being told you are immune to Covid as the same disciplines are used in determination of immunity and thus are open to question.
"Rubella: Pitfalls in the diagnosis and the determination of the immune status."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...86653215003340
Your figures are wrong and mine are right and I don't have to prove them to you.
Natural immunity occurs not in 60% but only 23.45% of people. So out of 100,000 - 23,450 have a so called natural immunity. Another 75,655 have varying degrees of immunity and would suffer from mild to mid-range symptoms if they caught it. The remaining 895 people would suffer severe symptoms if infected.
Of the 23,450 immune people, it is not known how many have become immune due to purely being originally infected and have thus built up antibodies before the need for measurements or the measurements themselves took place, for how many it is a combination of that and a totally natural immunity, and how many haven't suffered because they solely possessed a natural immunity to many things even before the virus came into being and it just so happened they were immune to this particular virus.
However, it is known that possessing some form of immunity doesn't guarantee immunity to all and every strain that occurs.
"Mutations speculated to reduce immune recognition, such as within the spike protein (S13I, 69-70del, W152L, A222V, K417N, N439K, S477N, T478K, E484K/Q, F490S, P681H/R) and nucleoprotein (RG203KR) should be studied for reduced sensitivity to natural or vaccine-induced immunity."
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/...85-021-01633-w
Also, as shown in a study done in 2015 regarding Rubella, there are doubts in all cases of the determination of immunity to anything. This translates directly in being told you are immune to Covid as the same disciplines are used in determination of immunity and thus are open to question.
"Rubella: Pitfalls in the diagnosis and the determination of the immune status."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...86653215003340
Your figures are wrong and mine are right and I don't have to prove them to you.
Dec 11th 2021, 8:59 am
#80
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 513
Re: Covid update
"I am sure you think you are….."
Unfortunately you think you are as well on this point. As do those opposed to the vaccination (which you are not I understand) and many others who think they are right about many subjects including flat earthers etc. You've missed the point though. The point is you come out with figures 'someone told you'. I and others wonder at the veracity of these and your reply is you don't have to prove it.
"If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs....." - which makes it understandable why you have total belief in what you were told without questioning it, like I/we are and because of that belief without taking it further, you are unable to answer more specific questions. It's the easiest thing in the world to come out with statistics (60%, 39%, 1%) but without backing that up with even a rudimentary source, in conclusion, you are unpersuasive.
Stay safe.
Unfortunately you think you are as well on this point. As do those opposed to the vaccination (which you are not I understand) and many others who think they are right about many subjects including flat earthers etc. You've missed the point though. The point is you come out with figures 'someone told you'. I and others wonder at the veracity of these and your reply is you don't have to prove it.
"If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs....." - which makes it understandable why you have total belief in what you were told without questioning it, like I/we are and because of that belief without taking it further, you are unable to answer more specific questions. It's the easiest thing in the world to come out with statistics (60%, 39%, 1%) but without backing that up with even a rudimentary source, in conclusion, you are unpersuasive.
Stay safe.
Dec 11th 2021, 9:22 am
#81
Banned
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 538
Re: Covid update
I'm all for mandatory vaccination.
Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.
Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.
Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!
Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.
Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.
Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!
Dec 11th 2021, 9:39 am
#82
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 660
Re: Covid update
I'm all for mandatory vaccination.
Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.
Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.
Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!
Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.
Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.
Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!
Dec 11th 2021, 2:21 pm
#84
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 288
Re: Covid update
"I am sure you think you are….."
Unfortunately you think you are as well on this point. As do those opposed to the vaccination (which you are not I understand) and many others who think they are right about many subjects including flat earthers etc. You've missed the point though. The point is you come out with figures 'someone told you'. I and others wonder at the veracity of these and your reply is you don't have to prove it.
"If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs....." - which makes it understandable why you have total belief in what you were told without questioning it, like I/we are and because of that belief without taking it further, you are unable to answer more specific questions. It's the easiest thing in the world to come out with statistics (60%, 39%, 1%) but without backing that up with even a rudimentary source, in conclusion, you are unpersuasive.
Stay safe.
Unfortunately you think you are as well on this point. As do those opposed to the vaccination (which you are not I understand) and many others who think they are right about many subjects including flat earthers etc. You've missed the point though. The point is you come out with figures 'someone told you'. I and others wonder at the veracity of these and your reply is you don't have to prove it.
"If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs....." - which makes it understandable why you have total belief in what you were told without questioning it, like I/we are and because of that belief without taking it further, you are unable to answer more specific questions. It's the easiest thing in the world to come out with statistics (60%, 39%, 1%) but without backing that up with even a rudimentary source, in conclusion, you are unpersuasive.
Stay safe.
You may pursue your own dogmatic opinion as much as you want.
Dec 11th 2021, 2:50 pm
#85
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 513
Re: Covid update
"You may pursue your own dogmatic opinion as much as you want."
My opinion is based on verifiable facts and research. Your opinion appears to be based on what some unidentifiable person told you, doesn't it?
"I can only tell you what the research has revealed so far. I am sure that research will be released in full in due course"
If you can pass on details sufficient for me to contact them in order to obtain preliminary findings, I'd be obliged. I will also ask them for when and where the research is to be published, whether peer reviewed or not. Then the issue can be settled to your satisfaction. Maybe. Unless your dogma holds you back from belief if the findings and conclusions are contrary to what you were told. If they are contrary to mine I will admit to being wrong and immediately say so. I have no problem in changing my opinion with the result of new facts. My horse in this race is accuracy.
My opinion is based on verifiable facts and research. Your opinion appears to be based on what some unidentifiable person told you, doesn't it?
"I can only tell you what the research has revealed so far. I am sure that research will be released in full in due course"
If you can pass on details sufficient for me to contact them in order to obtain preliminary findings, I'd be obliged. I will also ask them for when and where the research is to be published, whether peer reviewed or not. Then the issue can be settled to your satisfaction. Maybe. Unless your dogma holds you back from belief if the findings and conclusions are contrary to what you were told. If they are contrary to mine I will admit to being wrong and immediately say so. I have no problem in changing my opinion with the result of new facts. My horse in this race is accuracy.
Dec 11th 2021, 3:14 pm
#86
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,624
Re: Covid update
I'm all for mandatory vaccination.
Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.
Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.
Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!
Vaccine passports should be required to do anything.
Hospitals are being clogged up with the unvaccinated Covid patients which is both putting the health service under unnecessary strain and interfering with routine procedures like much needed cancer treatment.
Basically, anti-vaxxers are selfish bar stewards!
Dec 11th 2021, 5:11 pm
#87
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,902
Re: Covid update
Refusing NHS paid treatment for non jabbed who get Covid could be an option.
Covid passport or credit card before entry to hospital!!
Covid passport or credit card before entry to hospital!!
Dec 11th 2021, 5:17 pm
#88
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 288
Re: Covid update
"You may pursue your own dogmatic opinion as much as you want."
My opinion is based on verifiable facts and research. Your opinion appears to be based on what some unidentifiable person told you, doesn't it?
"I can only tell you what the research has revealed so far. I am sure that research will be released in full in due course"
If you can pass on details sufficient for me to contact them in order to obtain preliminary findings, I'd be obliged. I will also ask them for when and where the research is to be published, whether peer reviewed or not. Then the issue can be settled to your satisfaction. Maybe. Unless your dogma holds you back from belief if the findings and conclusions are contrary to what you were told. If they are contrary to mine I will admit to being wrong and immediately say so. I have no problem in changing my opinion with the result of new facts. My horse in this race is accuracy.
My opinion is based on verifiable facts and research. Your opinion appears to be based on what some unidentifiable person told you, doesn't it?
"I can only tell you what the research has revealed so far. I am sure that research will be released in full in due course"
If you can pass on details sufficient for me to contact them in order to obtain preliminary findings, I'd be obliged. I will also ask them for when and where the research is to be published, whether peer reviewed or not. Then the issue can be settled to your satisfaction. Maybe. Unless your dogma holds you back from belief if the findings and conclusions are contrary to what you were told. If they are contrary to mine I will admit to being wrong and immediately say so. I have no problem in changing my opinion with the result of new facts. My horse in this race is accuracy.
Dec 11th 2021, 5:19 pm
#89
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 288
Re: Covid update
Except thats not how our NHS works and its also not how a a free society works........ The same could be said for smokers, drinkers and the clinically obese as they are all a self inflicted burden on the system......
Dec 11th 2021, 7:06 pm
#90
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,902
Re: Covid update
No it’s not a normal option but who knows what may become the norm?