Covid update

Old Dec 8th 2021, 10:56 am
  #61  
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Default Re: Covid update

There are two reasons to be jabbed, medical and bureaucratic. Either one is good enough for me if it comes down to it.
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Old Dec 9th 2021, 6:57 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

What about those of us with natural immunity? I should point out that is more than 60% of the planet....... So in fact the majority have to pander to the minority and be treat like criminals if they don't comply.......
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Old Dec 9th 2021, 7:03 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

What evidence that your natural immunity is any more effect than the immunity that a jab gives you?
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Old Dec 9th 2021, 8:08 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

60% of the population of the world are immune to the covid virus and its mutations?
Completely? Or just to varying degrees?
How many are completely immune? 100% immune? Any really at all? How do you know?
If there is anyone, how infectious are they? Same as unvaccinated? Or less so as with a vaccinated person because even the the viral load is similar, the length of time they are infectious is far shorter.
By the way - "February 21, 2021, it was estimated that around 33 percent of the U.S. population was immune to COVID-19."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ty-us-by-type/
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Old Dec 9th 2021, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Fred James View Post
What evidence that your natural immunity is any more effect than the immunity that a jab gives you?
I have been involved in a trial with Cambridge University for the last 12 months for them to understand why the naturally immune are immune in order to help develop more effective vaccines in the future. The vaccine currently does not give you any immunity, it merely helps your body recognise and fight the infection more effectively which reduces your chance of getting seriously ill. That is a big difference between vaccine and natural immunity. I do not catch covid as my body deals with it at first contact. Apparently the same reason I do not catch the flu either despite my wife getting laid low with it pretty much every year despite being vaccinated. And before anyone thinks I am suggesting I am superhuman, I am actually perfectly normal and in the approximately 60% of the planet in the same position.

It appears that some people's bodies have a natural and instant response to contact with coronaviruses like covid, common cold, covid etc. The next approximately 39% of humanity have a baseline response which means they don't get sick or have really mild symptoms but can actually share the virus (referred to as the asymptomatic carriers) who actually do the spreading. The remaining 1% are the ones that unfortunately get battered by it but if you actually look at the deaths versus the true population of the planet its actually statistically small (you have to take away the dishonest figures of dying with Covid as opposed to from Covid) its not quite the calamity we have been led to believe. Please don't for a moment think I am down playing the effects just that the picture is quite skewed and people have become afraid of a bogeyman that is not quite what it seems.

It's just an interesting observation of where we are. My job exempts me from all the testing and locator forms and I come and go across Europe and the UK on a daily basis without issue. My wife on the other hand has to have a Covid test tomorrow of her flight to the Uk on Saturday and will have to have another on arrival. I will just walk onto the aircraft and out the other side without issue. So guess which of us will have to go and do the shopping on Sunday in the UK......

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Old Dec 9th 2021, 9:25 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

So, you have not had Covid but are naturally immune - lucky you! What % of the population are also naturally immune?
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 1:44 am
  #67  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by airways View Post
I have been involved in a trial with Cambridge University for the last 12 months for them to understand why the naturally immune are immune in order to help develop more effective vaccines in the future. The vaccine currently does not give you any immunity, it merely helps your body recognise and fight the infection more effectively which reduces your chance of getting seriously ill. That is a big difference between vaccine and natural immunity. I do not catch covid as my body deals with it at first contact. Apparently the same reason I do not catch the flu either despite my wife getting laid low with it pretty much every year despite being vaccinated. And before anyone thinks I am suggesting I am superhuman, I am actually perfectly normal and in the approximately 60% of the planet in the same position.

It appears that some people's bodies have a natural and instant response to contact with coronaviruses like covid, common cold, covid etc. The next approximately 39% of humanity have a baseline response which means they don't get sick or have really mild symptoms but can actually share the virus (referred to as the asymptomatic carriers) who actually do the spreading. The remaining 1% are the ones that unfortunately get battered by it but if you actually look at the deaths versus the true population of the planet its actually statistically small (you have to take away the dishonest figures of dying with Covid as opposed to from Covid) its not quite the calamity we have been led to believe. Please don't for a moment think I am down playing the effects just that the picture is quite skewed and people have become afraid of a bogeyman that is not quite what it seems.

It's just an interesting observation of where we are. My job exempts me from all the testing and locator forms and I come and go across Europe and the UK on a daily basis without issue. My wife on the other hand has to have a Covid test tomorrow of her flight to the Uk on Saturday and will have to have another on arrival. I will just walk onto the aircraft and out the other side without issue. So guess which of us will have to go and do the shopping on Sunday in the UK......
This is very interesting... Can you please send a link to the studies that confirm these approximate numbers, 60, 39 and 1 % and the trial... Id like to research it further....

Thanks in advance
Jon
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 7:07 am
  #68  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Stingychips View Post
I seen a video of the Xmas markets in Luxembourg I think it was were they tried to stop unvaccinated people from entering. The unvaccinated people just stormed the fence and that was the end of that.
I must say those guys at the front really look like the typical Christmas market customer interested in buying specialist ham, cheese, and other seasonable comestibles. It must be nice for them to have a break from their usual job of setting fire to rubbish containers.

In any ICU approximately 90% of people are unvaccinated and approximately 40% die. This is why the Covid certificate exists, to stop this happening to them. God knows what they think they're fighting for, but whatever it is, they're wrong.

Last edited by DLC; Dec 10th 2021 at 7:10 am.
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Fred James View Post
So, you have not had Covid but are naturally immune - lucky you! What % of the population are also naturally immune?

From what I understand it is the numbers I have quoted at around 60%. I am not aberration in the statistics I am actually the norm. My T cell response indicates that I have been exposed to Covid on multiple occasions. I did a flight test on a guy who spend 2hrs coughing a spluttering all over me in the cockpit and then the next day was admitted to hospital for 2 weeks with Covid which required a major disinfection of the aircraft!
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 1:33 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by airways View Post
From what I understand it is the numbers I have quoted at around 60%. I am not aberration in the statistics I am actually the norm. My T cell response indicates that I have been exposed to Covid on multiple occasions. I did a flight test on a guy who spend 2hrs coughing a spluttering all over me in the cockpit and then the next day was admitted to hospital for 2 weeks with Covid which required a major disinfection of the aircraft!
Just because someone coughed near you and was later diagnosed as having Covid isnt proof that you have natural immunity. I appreciate you are part of a very academic study and have been told that you are immune and you are exempt from all testing and can travel with no restrictions because you are a pilot etc but it makes the rest of us feel a bit down.
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 1:44 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Are you exempt from testing because you are 'immune', or because you are a pilot?
If it is solely because of this immunity, what proof do you carry around with you?
For a normal person to enter a country they must (usually) have proof of vaccination, proof or recovery or a negative test. Never have I seen regulations, after travelling to at least a dozen countries, that add on a fourth get out of jail free card called a " Proof of Immunity" certificate.
I presume you flash your vaccination pass because there isn't such a thing, but you've been told "you are immune" by someone.

"Naturally Immune" - Why are you immune? Do you mean you are immune now because of the covid antibodies in your blood or do you mean you have none/few but are 'naturally immune' anyway. i.e. if it could have been known and measured, even before covid appeared, you would have been immune to it? You've not become that way due to covid making you so.
And still where do you get this 60% from, no matter all the other figures? - "From what I understand it is the numbers I have quoted at around 60%."
No proof then. From what I understand, you are wrong. You came up with that figure, you need to justify it.


Are you immune to all variants or just the one in the clinical test? Or don't you know?
You say "I am immune" but to all of them? Being immune is not black and white, there are varying degrees of immunity, naturally or otherwise.
That's why some die and some are asymptomatic, and many degrees in between of effect and seriousness.

If you are immune purely because you now have the antibodies, the advice is to still get the vaccination -
https://www.immunology.org/coronavir...ection-vaccine

By the way, - "How many people have covid 19 antibodies in the UK?" - around 93% - if having the antibodies truly made you fully immune, then why still promote being vaccinated? Save then a lot of money and hassle to end the vaccination campaign and restrictions, never mind the public opinion.
https://www.statista.com/chart/23961...id-antibodies/

Last edited by Mark604; Dec 10th 2021 at 2:03 pm.
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 1:55 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Airways- just read your earlier post where you say you have been involved with a trial in UK for 12 months. How is that possible if you are a Spanish resident?.
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 5:42 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Chipmonk View Post
Airways- just read your earlier post where you say you have been involved with a trial in UK for 12 months. How is that possible if you are a Spanish resident?.
I live in Spain and work in the UK. I have homes and cars in both places. I guess not everyone lives in a small box....
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 5:52 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Mark604 View Post
Are you exempt from testing because you are 'immune', or because you are a pilot?
If it is solely because of this immunity, what proof do you carry around with you?
For a normal person to enter a country they must (usually) have proof of vaccination, proof or recovery or a negative test. Never have I seen regulations, after travelling to at least a dozen countries, that add on a fourth get out of jail free card called a " Proof of Immunity" certificate.
I presume you flash your vaccination pass because there isn't such a thing, but you've been told "you are immune" by someone.

"Naturally Immune" - Why are you immune? Do you mean you are immune now because of the covid antibodies in your blood or do you mean you have none/few but are 'naturally immune' anyway. i.e. if it could have been known and measured, even before covid appeared, you would have been immune to it? You've not become that way due to covid making you so.
And still where do you get this 60% from, no matter all the other figures? - "From what I understand it is the numbers I have quoted at around 60%."
No proof then. From what I understand, you are wrong. You came up with that figure, you need to justify it.


Are you immune to all variants or just the one in the clinical test? Or don't you know?
You say "I am immune" but to all of them? Being immune is not black and white, there are varying degrees of immunity, naturally or otherwise.
That's why some die and some are asymptomatic, and many degrees in between of effect and seriousness.

If you are immune purely because you now have the antibodies, the advice is to still get the vaccination -
https://www.immunology.org/coronavir...ection-vaccine

By the way, - "How many people have covid 19 antibodies in the UK?" - around 93% - if having the antibodies truly made you fully immune, then why still promote being vaccinated? Save then a lot of money and hassle to end the vaccination campaign and restrictions, never mind the public opinion.
https://www.statista.com/chart/23961...id-antibodies/
Erm.... At no point have made any sort of ant vaccine statement. I am actually fully vaccinated and 3rd booster as of the other day in the UK. And I believe that people should be vaccinated even if it is a scattergun approach to the problem.

During the original lockdown we were still flying and the only way to check if someone was infected was a blood test for the T cell count. I had multiple tests. Cambridge university asked for volunteers to participate in the research which I signed up to and have been involved in for over year now. They are researching ways to find better vaccines by looking at the immune system of the naturally immune and seeing if they can understand why we are immune. Its more than just antibodies they are studying its how our bodies react to exposure. If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs.....

I am exempt testing and isolation as aircrew not because I wave any type of certificate. When flying we have to do a lateral flow every 3 days which we do as we go on duty. When off duty we have no testing requirement.

For those in doubt... https://www.gov.uk/government/public...k-border-rules

I gave a figure I was given as part of the research, I don't have to prove anything to you........

But here you go.....

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...-from-covid-19

Last edited by airways; Dec 10th 2021 at 6:08 pm.
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Old Dec 10th 2021, 7:18 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: Covid update

I did say, "I presume you flash your vaccination pass..." as I understood you are vaccinated and are not anti-vaxx otherwise you wouldn't be.
Natural immunity occurs not in 60% but only 23.45% of people. So out of 100,000 - 23,450 have a so called natural immunity. Another 75,655 have varying degrees of immunity and would suffer from mild to mid-range symptoms if they caught it. The remaining 895 people would suffer severe symptoms if infected.
Of the 23,450 immune people, it is not known how many have become immune due to purely being originally infected and have thus built up antibodies before the need for measurements or the measurements themselves took place, for how many it is a combination of that and a totally natural immunity, and how many haven't suffered because they solely possessed a natural immunity to many things even before the virus came into being and it just so happened they were immune to this particular virus.

However, it is known that possessing some form of immunity doesn't guarantee immunity to all and every strain that occurs.
"Mutations speculated to reduce immune recognition, such as within the spike protein (S13I, 69-70del, W152L, A222V, K417N, N439K, S477N, T478K, E484K/Q, F490S, P681H/R) and nucleoprotein (RG203KR) should be studied for reduced sensitivity to natural or vaccine-induced immunity."
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/...85-021-01633-w


Also, as shown in a study done in 2015 regarding Rubella, there are doubts in all cases of the determination of immunity to anything. This translates directly in being told you are immune to Covid as the same disciplines are used in determination of immunity and thus are open to question.
"Rubella: Pitfalls in the diagnosis and the determination of the immune status."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...86653215003340

Your figures are wrong and mine are right and I don't have to prove them to you.

Last edited by Mark604; Dec 10th 2021 at 7:45 pm.
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