Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8127962)

Your information about EUC are true. I had just finished my legal appeal. I don´t pay anything. EUC is totally illegality. You could be a good lawyer!!!.

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8127100)

Thank so much Mike J for your translation.

I translate my letter (I wish it´s better than Google!!!)

Maria Dolores, say that she has received a EUC´s bill (174 €) and she ask for information about what it this. She has call to the Council and they say that we have call a lawyer. This is López, Gutiérrez, Consulting, S,C. Abogados. They are managers´EUC. Curiously, I have information that this enterprise that before this company was call López, Gutiérrez, Castillo, S.C. Sorprise!!. Castillo is the mayor (Antonio J. Rodríguez Castillo) that he´s lawyer. Both enterprise have same adress in Ayamonte and Isla Cristina...

I don´t pay anything. I am going to legal appeal because: don´t exist the acknowledgement of receipt and the Council isn’t authenticated for to ask for the bills.

If somebody want my document, my e-mail adress is: [email protected] (Only you need to write your information)IT´S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU SEND THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE 2 DECEMBER. YOU MUST TO GO TO POSTAL SEND WITH A STAMP WHICH IT SEE THE DATE. YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO COPIES: ONE IS SEND TO COUNCIL AND OTHER IS YOUR PROOF.

Regards,

Spanish_lawyer


Thank so much Mike J for your translation.

María Dolores, te escribo la carta en español.

Los abogados a los que te dice el Ayuntamiento que llames son López, Gutiérrez, Consulting, S,C. Abogados. Ellos son, los gestores de la Entidad Urbanística de Conservación. Curiosamente, tengo información que demuestra que esa empresa se llamaba antes López, Gutiérrez, Castillo, S.C. Curioso!. Castillo es el Alcalde de Ayamonte, que es abogado. Ambas empresas tienen la misma dirección en Ayamonte y en Isla Cristina.

No voy a pagar ni céntimo. Yo voy a recurrir por que: no existe acta de recepción de las obras y el Ayuntamiento no está legitimado para pedir el pago de los recibos.

Si alguien quiere ese documente, mi e-mail is: [email protected] (Tú sólo debes poner tus datos)

ES MUY IMPORTE QUE LO ENVÍES ANTES DEL DOS DE DICIEMBRE. TU DEBES IR A CORREOS Y ENVIARLO CON EL SELLO EN EL QUE SE VEA LA FECHA (EN ESPAÑA SE LLAMA CORREO ADMINISTRATIVO). ES NECESARIO QUE VAYAS CON DOS COPIAS: UNA LA ENVÍAS AL AYUNTAMIENTO Y LA OTRA ES LA PRUEBA DE TU RECURSO.

Saludos.




Spanish_lawyer

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8127100)

Thank so much Mike J for your translation.

I translate my letter (I wish it´s better than Google!!!)

Maria Dolores, say that she has received a EUC´s bill (174 €) and she ask for information about what it this. She has call to the Council and they say that we have call a lawyer. This is López, Gutiérrez, Consulting, S,C. Abogados. They are managers´EUC. Curiously, I have information that this enterprise that before this company was call López, Gutiérrez, Castillo, S.C. Sorprise!!. Castillo is the mayor (Antonio J. Rodríguez Castillo) that he´s lawyer. Both enterprise have same adress in Ayamonte and Isla Cristina...

I don´t pay anything. I am going to legal appeal because: don´t exist the acknowledgement of receipt and the Council isn’t authenticated for to ask for the bills.

If somebody want my document, my e-mail adress is: [email protected] (Only you need to write your information)

IT´S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU SEND THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE 2 DECEMBER. YOU MUST TO GO TO POSTAL SEND WITH A STAMP WHICH IT SEE THE DATE. YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO COPIES: ONE IS SEND TO COUNCIL AND OTHER IS YOUR PROOF.

Regards,

Spanish_lawyer


Thank so much Mike J for your translation.

María Dolores, te escribo la carta en español.

Los abogados a los que te dice el Ayuntamiento que llames son López, Gutiérrez, Consulting, S,C. Abogados. Ellos son, los gestores de la Entidad Urbanística de Conservación. Curiosamente, tengo información que demuestra que esa empresa se llamaba antes López, Gutiérrez, Castillo, S.C. Curioso!. Castillo es el Alcalde de Ayamonte, que es abogado. Ambas empresas tienen la misma dirección en Ayamonte y en Isla Cristina.

No voy a pagar ni céntimo. Yo voy a recurrir por que: no existe acta de recepción de las obras y el Ayuntamiento no está legitimado para pedir el pago de los recibos.

Si alguien quiere ese documente, mi e-mail is: [email protected] (Tú sólo debes poner tus datos)

ES MUY IMPORTE QUE LO ENVÍES ANTES DEL DOS DE DICIEMBRE. TU DEBES IR A CORREOS Y ENVIARLO CON EL SELLO EN EL QUE SE VEA LA FECHA (EN ESPAÑA SE LLAMA CORREO ADMINISTRATIVO). ES NECESARIO QUE VAYAS CON DOS COPIAS: UNA LA ENVÍAS AL AYUNTAMIENTO Y LA OTRA ES LA PRUEBA DE TU RECURSO.

Saludos.


Spanish_lawyer

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 8128799)

Hi Spanish_lawyer and thank you for your input on the forum...

May I ask a couple questions and make some points, please?

1. You are saying that the Mayor is ALSO part of the law firm that represents the EUC (see red above). But the Mayor is the president of the EUC board.... is this really true? I cant believe that this 'conflict of interest' can be possible, especially if there is any financial payment to the law firm for the services they provide. Castillo is a common name - are we really talking about the same person? I even heard that the name 'Castillo' has been removed from the wall and you can see the screw holes! IS this true or just malicious rumour? After all we are talking politics and his opponents may be trying to manipulate.

2. I received my EUC bill yesterday - under Spanish law, how can they send a bill and expect payment in a few days. Isnt there a legal requirement that says we have a certain amount of time to pay? (eg 21 days)

3. Someone told me that in Spain we are expected to pay our regular bills by a certain time - even if we havent received the bill. I understand this for say IBI when everyone knows the dates for payment, and the payments have been going on for years. However with the EUC bill THEY have been nearly a year late in developing the bill - we have had no idea when they were due, (until the recent rumours) and there was no official communication. This is the FIRST bill - surely they need to communcate officially and give enough time to pay?
4. Also surely they need to communicate the payment times for FUTURE bills? What happens when the second bill is due? They cannot depend on rumour and an internet forum, that only some people use, to pass on information.
5 Can you please confirm something about the bill. If they have calculated it wrong, are they required to fix their mistake and pay back any overpayment please?

Lets face it this whole EUC administration is a mess - I have heard from MANY people that they will start an owners association, and the Spanish are well aware of their/our rights. An owners asociation is a legal entity.

I believe that there are many mistakes here in the whole set up, the way they communicate (or not so) and now the mess up with the bill payment and times. I also personally think they may have the coefficients wrong. If it takes months for them to get a list of names and addresses for the bill (when they ALREADY have all this for the IBI) - then how do we know that our coefficient - which is in SIX decimal places - is right? Thats a level of detail that needs far more careful attention than a name and adress!!!

We live in a duplex - the duplexes are all about the same in size and footprint - with a small variation. People, including me, have been billed as follows 113, 130, 170, 300, 300!! How can this be possible???

By poor management - communication - and processes they defeat the object to get the money they need to make a nice development. Already many people are refusing to pay and you are appealing for example.

Like I've said before the 'omens' are not good for us in the future to be ripped off, even though it may not have happened already - this mess only opens the door to it.

I'm paying my bill as I dont have the expertise, language skills or time to fight this - so yes I'm wimping out! The fact is that for many people this is our holiday home, we are busy at home and we want to have fun when we are there - not get into these kinds of fights. Unscrupulous people can take advantage of that and take advantage - especially with the door open. Lets hope that there arent any in this organisation and they are all honest people.
Regards
Jon

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8128586)

Hello Spanish_lawyer,

Please could you send me a copy of your document via this forum's email facility? As you have now posted more than 4 times on this forum, you are able to communicate via PM or email by clicking on the person's name (to the left of the post & above the avatar). A menu will drop down. Thank you.

I understand the connection you have made with the mayor's name and the name of the law firm hired by the EUC board to carry out administrative duties for the EUC. There were 2 articles in the local newspapers (around 10 days ago) referring to a "querella" or complaint, between the two local political parties, the PP and (the mayor's) PSOE.

"I wish a lawyer would step in and sort it all out."

Regarding the legality of the EUC (the legitimacy of the EUC is another matter, as pointed out by MikeJ - I believe there is a deadline for when the EUC can be registered on the Junta de Andalucia's books?), here is my understanding of it (BTW, I am NOT a lawyer):
1. It's formation is written in the "escritura", but without mention of a time frame, or, I believe, the ayuntamiento receiving it.
2. The 2005 "estatutos" for the proposed EUC of Costa Esuri were ammended shortly before Martinsa-Fadesa went into administration. The EUC could be formed prior to the completion of the urbanisation. My question is: Has anyone seen a copy of the newly formed EUC Costa Esuri constitution?

"Lord, I wish a lawyer would step in and sort it all out."

John&Kath mentioned a good point about paying the EUC fee yet seeking more information about an "Asociacion de vecinos".

MikeJ mentioned another good point about possible defects in the structure of the urbanisation. I know of one other person who has asked this question: Who pays for the fixing? The ayuntamiento? Martinsa Fadesa's 6M promisory note?:rolleyes: The EUC Costa Esuri?

A "Catch22" situation indeed. Pay the EUC fee, so as not to incur a penalty, plus the worry of whether or not the ayuntamiento/junta will come after the money? Pay the EUC fee, in order to gain some sort of representation at the AGM (still to be proved) at the end of December?

...And God did answer, "I am a lawyer." :sneaky:

Saludos,
Carol

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 8128799)

Hi Spanish_lawyer and thank you for your input on the forum...

May I ask a couple questions and make some points, please?

1. You are saying that the Mayor is ALSO part of the law firm that represents the EUC (see red above). But the Mayor is the president of the EUC board.... is this really true? I cant believe that this 'conflict of interest' can be possible, especially if there is any financial payment to the law firm for the services they provide. Castillo is a common name - are we really talking about the same person? I even heard that the name 'Castillo' has been removed from the wall and you can see the screw holes! IS this true or just malicious rumour? After all we are talking politics and his opponents may be trying to manipulate.

2. I received my EUC bill yesterday - under Spanish law, how can they send a bill and expect payment in a few days. Isnt there a legal requirement that says we have a certain amount of time to pay? (eg 21 days)

3. Someone told me that in Spain we are expected to pay our regular bills by a certain time - even if we havent received the bill. I understand this for say IBI when everyone knows the dates for payment, and the payments have been going on for years. However with the EUC bill THEY have been nearly a year late in developing the bill - we have had no idea when they were due, (until the recent rumours) and there was no official communication. This is the FIRST bill - surely they need to communcate officially and give enough time to pay?

4. Also surely they need to communicate the payment times for FUTURE bills? What happens when the second bill is due? They cannot depend on rumour and an internet forum, that only some people use, to pass on information.

5 Can you please confirm something about the bill. If they have calculated it wrong, are they required to fix their mistake and pay back any overpayment please?

Lets face it this whole EUC administration is a mess - I have heard from MANY people that they will start an owners association, and the Spanish are well aware of their/our rights. An owners asociation is a legal entity.

I believe that there are many mistakes here in the whole set up, the way they communicate (or not so) and now the mess up with the bill payment and times. I also personally think they may have the coefficients wrong. If it takes months for them to get a list of names and addresses for the bill (when they ALREADY have all this for the IBI) - then how do we know that our coefficient - which is in SIX decimal places - is right? Thats a level of detail that needs far more careful attention than a name and adress!!!

We live in a duplex - the duplexes are all about the same in size and footprint - with a small variation. People, including me, have been billed as follows 113, 130, 170, 300, 300!! How can this be possible???

By poor management - communication - and processes they defeat the object to get the money they need to make a nice development. Already many people are refusing to pay and you are appealing for example.

Like I've said before the 'omens' are not good for us in the future to be ripped off, even though it may not have happened already - this mess only opens the door to it.

I'm paying my bill as I dont have the expertise, language skills or time to fight this - so yes I'm wimping out! The fact is that for many people this is our holiday home, we are busy at home and we want to have fun when we are there - not get into these kinds of fights. Unscrupulous people can take advantage of that and take advantage - especially with the door open. Lets hope that there arent any in this organisation and they are all honest people.
Regards
Jon

Originally Posted by MikeJ (Post 7803852)

I was also going to say that, if the EUC committee is set up for membership voting and not just board voting, then your idea about everyone giving their proxy to Steve could provide us with a pretty impressive block vote. Although we would need to be very careful not to antagonise Spanish owners or we could be seen as a pushy Brit invasion :( and cause untold resentment.

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 8129488)

Hola Spanish-Lawyer,

I tried to email you at the email address you posted but it did not send so I would be grateful if you would send me the information via the forum email that is within my ID by clicking on John & Kath and choosing email.

Best Regards and a happy Christmas John.

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 8128496)

That is a bit of a dramatic statement to make on a forum, maybe you should let others into the facts you have found out, or are you just touting for work ?

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 8128799)

Hi Spanish_lawyer and thank you for your input on the forum...

May I ask a couple questions and make some points, please?

1. You are saying that the Mayor is ALSO part of the law firm that represents the EUC (see red above). But the Mayor is the president of the EUC board.... is this really true?. YES IT´S TRUE. I cant believe that this 'conflict of interest' can be possible, especially if there is any financial payment to the law firm for the services they provide. Castillo is a common name - are we really talking about the same person? I even heard that the name 'Castillo' has been removed from the wall and you can see the screw holes! IS this true or just malicious rumour? After all we are talking politics and his opponents may be trying to manipulate. CASTILLO ISN´T COMMON SURNAME. THE INFORMATION IS TRUE. YOU MUST TO BELIEVE IT.

2. I received my EUC bill yesterday - under Spanish law, how can they send a bill and expect payment in a few days. Isnt there a legal requirement that says we have a certain amount of time to pay? (eg 21 days). IT´S TOTALLY ILLEGAL, THE BILL AND THE TERM ALSO. I RECOMMEND TO YOU TO APPEAL. IF YOU WRITE TO ME TO MY MAIL, I WILL SEND YOU A MODEL.

3. Someone told me that in Spain we are expected to pay our regular bills by a certain time - even if we havent received the bill. I understand this for say IBI when everyone knows the dates for payment, and the payments have been going on for years. However with the EUC bill THEY have been nearly a year late in developing the bill - we have had no idea when they were due, (until the recent rumours) and there was no official communication. This is the FIRST bill - surely they need to communcate officially and give enough time to pay? THE IBI AND THE CONSERVATION´S EUC ARE TOTALLY DIFERENT. THE IBI YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO PAY.

4. Also surely they need to communicate the payment times for FUTURE bills? What happens when the second bill is due? They cannot depend on rumour and an internet forum, that only some people use, to pass on information. YOU CAN TO APPEAL OR NOT. YOU ARE FREE. YOU CAN TO PAY TOO!!!.

5 Can you please confirm something about the bill. If they have calculated it wrong, are they required to fix their mistake and pay back any overpayment please? YES, IT HAVE A MISTAKE: THIS BILL MUST CALCULATED WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT ARE FINISHED!!!. DO YOU THINK IT?.

Lets face it this whole EUC administration is a mess - I have heard from MANY people that they will start an owners association, and the Spanish are well aware of their/our rights. An owners asociation is a legal entity. I DON´T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. I BELIEVE THAT IT IS NOT A BAD IDEA TO DO AN ASSOCIATION

I believe that there are many mistakes here in the whole set up, the way they communicate (or not so) and now the mess up with the bill payment and times. I also personally think they may have the coefficients wrong. If it takes months for them to get a list of names and addresses for the bill (when they ALREADY have all this for the IBI) - then how do we know that our coefficient - which is in SIX decimal places - is right? Thats a level of detail that needs far more careful attention than a name and adress!!!

We live in a duplex - the duplexes are all about the same in size and footprint - with a small variation. People, including me, have been billed as follows 113, 130, 170, 300, 300!! How can this be possible??? YES, IT´S TOTALLY POSSIBLE. IT´S DEPEND OF YOUR COEFFICIENT

By poor management - communication - and processes they defeat the object to get the money they need to make a nice development. Already many people are refusing to pay and you are appealing for example. IF SOMEONE DOESN´T PAY, I RECOMMED TO APPEAL.

Like I've said before the 'omens' are not good for us in the future to be ripped off, even though it may not have happened already - this mess only opens the door to it.

I'm paying my bill as I dont have the expertise, language skills or time to fight this - so yes I'm wimping out! The fact is that for many people this is our holiday home, we are busy at home and we want to have fun when we are there - not get into these kinds of fights. Unscrupulous people can take advantage of that and take advantage - especially with the door open. Lets hope that there arent any in this organisation and they are all honest people. I UNDERSTAND YOU. I AM EMPATHIC. IF I WRITE IT IS FOR THIS MOTIVE.
Regards
Jon

Originally Posted by John and Lynn (Post 8126737)

Hi, does anyone have an idea of the amount of these bills, for example a 2 bed apartment?

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8131713)

HAPPY CHRISTMAS

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 8128496)

That is a bit of a dramatic statement to make on a forum, maybe you should let others into the facts you have found out, or are you just touting for work ?

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8131714)

IT´S DEPENDS OF YOUR COEFFICIENT. IT´S APPEARS IN YOUR DEED OF SALE.

Originally Posted by Jur (Post 8132586)

He mentioned his help is free of charge, I´m sure if he´s a scam/touting for work it will be all over the forum. I speak from experience, as wrongfull accusations are daily business here.

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8131670)

I have a very good job. Thanks.

If I write it is for the disinformationthat you have. I inform him that I do not charge for this work.
I write the affirmations that I know which true. Are you any problem?. Can you proof the opposite?.

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 8132994)

Well your conclusions are different from what I read in the post

The dramatic bit was announcing on an open forum that the EUC are running an illegal scam in conjuntion with the council, surely a lawyer should know better ?

Originally Posted by mark donna (Post 8132600)

which coefficent the community or the intercommunity i ask because on lomas my community charges on my manzanna are very similar to everyone elses with the same size property but with the intercommunity i pay virtually double to 3 no properties of the same size when i looked into it i noticed that on each manzanna the houses numbered 1-10 pay virtually 1/2 what everyone else is paying. when i brought this up with the president (2 years ago) he took it to the meeting and then to the council but they say the is nothing they can do about it because it is written in the deeds. now i believe there has been a simple miscalculation which should of been able to rectify so we all paid roughly the same but nothing in spain is as simple as that ,so is the euc goining to use the intercommunity coefficent or the community coefficent or does it have a coefficent all of its own(god its complicated)

Originally Posted by Jur (Post 8133040)

Maybe he´s sincere..... and solely expressing his opinion. I´ve met a high esteemed member of the Junta de Andalucia once who called the Costa Esuri project the"biggest enviromental crime".

And I´m sure there are more users here touting for work....

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8128586)

Hello Spanish_lawyer,

Please could you send me a copy of your document via this forum's email facility? As you have now posted more than 4 times on this forum, you are able to communicate via PM or email by clicking on the person's name (to the left of the post & above the avatar). A menu will drop down. Thank you. I HAD JUST SEND THIS DOCUMMENT.

I understand the connection you have made with the mayor's name and the name of the law firm hired by the EUC board to carry out administrative duties for the EUC. There were 2 articles in the local newspapers (around 10 days ago) referring to a "querella" or complaint, between the two local political parties, the PP and (the mayor's) PSOE.

MY PRIORITY IS COSTA ESURI, I HAVE A PROPETY THERE. REALLY I AM NOT INTERESTED IN IT AYAMONTE´POLITICAL. BUT WHEN I KNOW THAT MAYOR BELONGS A LAW FIRM THAT MUST TO ADMINISTER CE, THE POLICAL IS IMPORTANT FOR ME. I DON´T UNDERSTAND WHY THE MAYOR DOESN´T DO HIS WORK: TO DEMAND TO FADESA IN ORDER TO THAT IT FINISHES THE DEVELOPMENT.

"I wish a lawyer would step in and sort it all out."

Regarding the legality of the EUC (the legitimacy of the EUC is another matter, as pointed out by MikeJ - I believe there is a deadline for when the EUC can be registered on the Junta de Andalucia's books?), here is my understanding of it (BTW, I am NOT a lawyer):
1. It's formation is written in the "escritura", but without mention of a time frame, or, I believe, the ayuntamiento receiving it.
2. The 2005 "estatutos" for the proposed EUC of Costa Esuri were ammended shortly before Martinsa-Fadesa went into administration. The EUC could be formed prior to the completion of the urbanisation. My question is: Has anyone seen a copy of the newly formed EUC Costa Esuri constitution?

I EXPLAIN TO YOU THIS (THIS IS VERY COMPLICATED EVEN FOR SPANISH LAWYERS). I HAVE SAW ALL DOCUMENTS. BUT YOU SAY IMPORTANT INFORMATIONS: 1) 2005: FIRST "ESTATUTOS" (BYLAWS????, SORRY I DON´T KNOW TRANSLATION IT); 2) THIS "ESTATUTOS" HAD BEEN MODIFICATED TWICE (THE OWNER DON´T THE OWNERS DID NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING); 3) NOWADAY, EUC ARE CONSTITUTED BUT LEGALLY A EUC HAVE TO SET ONESELF UP WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT ARE FINISHED AND THE COUNCIL AND FADESA SIGN "ACTA DE RECEPCIÓN" (ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF RECEIPT???. SORRY, MY ENGLISH IS VERY, VERY BAD AND MY ENGLISH LAW THE WORST!!). DEFINITIVELY, THIS CONSTITUTION IT IS LEGALLY, SINCE THERE DOES NOT EXIST "ACTA DE RECEPCIÓN".


"Lord, I wish a lawyer would step in and sort it all out."

John&Kath mentioned a good point about paying the EUC fee yet seeking more information about an "Asociacion de vecinos". I HAVE NOT HEARD ABYTHING ABOUT IT, BUT I BELIEVE THAT IT IS NOT A BADIDEA, BUT IT´S VERY, VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO REALIZE. YOU, NO RESIDENT PROPERTIES, ARE VERY COMPLICATED TO LOCATE. NOBODY (EXCEPT THE TOWN HALL, OF COURSE!!) HAS THE PERSONAL INFORMATION OF THE OWNERS.


MikeJ mentioned another good point about possible defects in the structure of the urbanisation. I know of one other person who has asked this question: Who pays for the fixing? The ayuntamiento? Martinsa Fadesa's 6M promisory note?:rolleyes: The EUC Costa Esuri?

VERY GOOD QUESTION. LEGALLY: THE DEFECTS HAVE TO COST FADESA. WHEN FADESA FINISHED, THE COUNCIL CHECK THE WORK AND THEY SIGN THE "ACTA DE RECEPCIÓN". FROM THIS MOMENT, NOT BEFORE, WE MUST TO PAY THE CONSERVATION. THE ACTUAL PROBLEM IS: THE WORKS HAVE NOT BEEN FINISHED NOT VERIFIED EITHER, THE "ACTA DE RECEPCIÓN" HAVEN´T BEEN SIGNED, BUT THEY WANT THAT WE PAY THE CONSERVATION. IT´S THE ILLEGAL PROCEDURE.

A "Catch22" situation indeed. Pay the EUC fee, so as not to incur a penalty, plus the worry of whether or not the ayuntamiento/junta will come after the money? Pay the EUC fee, in order to gain some sort of representation at the AGM (still to be proved) at the end of December?

I HAVE APPEAL. LEGALLY I HAVE I HAVE ASKED FOR THE SUSPENSION OF THE EXECUTION OF PAY.

...And God did answer, "I am a lawyer." :sneaky:

JA, JA, JA. I HAVE LISTENED TO THE SAME THING, BUT FINISHED IN DEVIL!!!!!!!!

Saludos,
Carol

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 8132994)

Well your conclusions are different from what I read in the post

The dramatic bit was announcing on an open forum that the EUC are running an illegal scam in conjuntion with the council, surely a lawyer should know better ?

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8132539)

Here's a google translation of another news article relating to the above (dated 14.11.09). If you place your cursor on each paragraph, the original text in spanish appears.
If L&G Consulting have been receiving 7000euros/month, who has been paying?
http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...C_enGB210GB212

Originally Posted by MikeJ (Post 8126991)

I suspect that the EUC is actually legal (if not legitimate) otherwise the ayuntimiento would not be involved in the revenue collection. The way to tell is to inspect the register of EUCs - Register of Collaborating Urbanistic Entities of the Provincial Commission of Urbanism -(though how and where you do is anyone's guess) but I think that once it's registered it's legal.
The the EUC fee is, therefore, a local tax and therefore the same penalties apply as for any other tax. The first step for non-payment is a fine of 5% (I heard and I don't know if that is monthly or a 1-off). The next step is legal action with, as the ultimate sanction, a criminal record in Spain and they can seize your property to defray the debt and expenses.
The only legal option seems to be to get involved in the democratic process (through the Intercommunity presidents who have a vote) to get the rules changed and don't forget to pay the bill as otherwise you won't be allowed to (Catch22).

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 8132424)

Thanks Spanish Lawyer for your advice - especially in English!

El Mundo is one of the biggest NATIONAL Spanish newspapers - they have made an article about the situation in Ayamonte/CE, the Mayor and his organisation .... see attached.

As I mentioned before this whole thing is a MESS!! I really hope we arent being taken advantage of - or setting ourselves up for it!!

Regards
Jon

Originally Posted by Jur (Post 8132586)

He mentioned his help is free of charge, I´m sure if he´s a scam/touting for work it will be all over the forum. I speak from experience, as wrongfull accusations are daily business here.

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8132679)

:scaredhair: Complicated? You said it!!
If it weren't so serious it'd be bl**dy hilarious!

So much for a restful Sunday...
Ah, yes, "God is a lawyer." :devil_smile:
He created the EUC.
!Despiertate, Spanish_lawyer! (Wakey, wakey!) Please help by being a bit open about how you go about lodging your appeal. You, I assume, are doing so on your own behalf and not that of others? Will you as a lawyer not be penalised for late payment because you have filed an appeal? For all I know, you could be the devil in disguise?

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8133683)

OK JUR. WHEN YOU CHARGE ME, THEN YOU SAY THAT I WRITE HERE BECAUSE I TOUT MY SERVICES.

I HAVE GIVEN SOME PEOPLE AN APPEAL MODEL THAT A LAWYER CHARGES FOR APPROXIMATELY 150 EUROS.

Originally Posted by Jur (Post 8134478)

Tu no me entiendes. Yo he escrito tu no quere dinero, te das servicios gratis.

¿Es correcto no estas registrado como abogado en la provincia de Huelva?

(You do not understand me. I wrote that you do not want money, your services are free.

Is it correct that you are not registered as a lawyer in the Province of Huelva?)

Originally Posted by spanish lawyer (Post 8135363)

Ok. I want to help to no resident owners Costa Esuri. I am going attached the appeal. But first, I need to explain several information.

1) WAHT IS THIS???

This a appeal for review of the decision of public body. Essentially this consists in applying for a review of the decision by the head of the department or section responsible for making it, so that the matter remains in the original domain. However, if the final decision goes against the applicant you have no option, if dissatisfied, nut to appeal to the court of the comepent jurisdiction, which takes the matter into the domain of the ordinary administrative jurisdiction (in spanish contencioso administrativo).

2) HOW DO YOU SEND IT?

You must send this document to the Council (Ayuntamiento de Ayamonte. Plaza de la Laguna, 1. Ayamonte 21400. Huelva. España), but it´s important what Postal Services puts the date and where you are send this document in a same copy for you. In Spanish, you go with you identical copies to Correos (Postal Mail), they stamp both copies, you send one copy, and other copy is the proof of your send. It´s very important that you send this document by registered letter.

3) AFTER TOU SEND THE APPEAL

The Council have 10 days for to send the appeal to the superior organ with his report and a copy completes of the dossier.

In 3 months the superior organ have to notificty the resolution.

4) APPEAL

You have to complete several information. You must to write in spanish. If you need to help, I can to translation (my english is the worst, but I write in spanish very good!!).

5) EFFECTS

With the appeal you are challenge a act and in this appeal you ask for the temporary suspension of the execution of the payment.

6) DOUBTS

If you have doubts, you can write me: [email protected]

((After I can´t attached files))

Originally Posted by yes we can (Post 8135425)

Hola Spanish_Lawyer:)

Thanks for all the information. I will e-mail you.
Gracias por la información. Te enviaré un correo. Saludos

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8137716)

Thank you Spanish_lawyer for posting the document on the forum. It remains in my opinion a scary prospect with many unanswered questions. Good luck though.:fingerscrossed:

What happens if your appeal fails after 3 months?
How much risk are you placing yourself in?
Does your victory mean a victory for all owners asked to pay the EUC fee?
Would the money already paid into the EUC fund/account be frozen as a result of your victory?

I read that the EUC board are trying to have the deadline for payment extended from the 2nd December to the end of the month. "Trying" doesn't mean for fact that the deadline has been changed.

Saludos,
Carol

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8138367)

What happens if your appeal fails after 3 months? I explain it, if the decision goes against the applicant, we has no optio, if dissatisfied, but to appeal to the court of the competent jurisdicition, which takes the matter unto the domain of the ordinary administrative jurisdiction. It´s a judicial review, appeal to the higher court against the decisión of the administratitve.

How much risk are you placing yourself in? I have appeal. I am not afraid. I know that we are right. The worst situation, I ask for judicial review.

Does your victory mean a victory for all owners asked to pay the EUC fee? In the first moment, the people which have paid, lost the money. We ask for the nullity of a bill, don´t the process.

Would the money already paid into the EUC fund/account be frozen as a result of your victory? No, how I have explain the victory is individual. After we can to ask four the nullity of the EUC.

Acording to the "extended from the 2nd December to the end of the month", the reallity is the document. The bill says: snd December. They can only extend this days with other bills or nottificaty the new term.

Thansks to you!!

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 8143576)

Hi SL

Firstly thank you for getting involved - people are suspicious when an offer of help arrives, as in the past we have had experience of people being involved for personal gain, or for some hidden agenda. I'm going to assume that you are one of the 'good guys' :) Don't apologise about your your English it is better than my Spanish - and its improving all the time as well!

My problem is that I live outside Spain, and like most people just don't have the energy or knowledge to appeal. I can see myself getting involved and VERY frustrated as I try to fight the system.

So as I mentioned earlier I 'wimped out' and paid the bill and set up the direct debit (DD) as well. I was expecting an EUC, and even though I think it is not properly managed or run - the extra cost I pay for this 'inefficiency' does not warrant the time and effort I would need to spend to rectify the problem. If I assume that a good and efficient organisation could reduce my bill by a third, it still isn't enough for me to fight this.

Of course this attitude is a defeatist attitude, and unscrupulous people could take advantage of this and profit from this. But I don't have the expertise, or time to set up a legal appeal and follow it through. I have other priorities that up take my time, too.

I can easily cancel the DD, if you are successful, and I will write off the first payment I made this week - because I don't see how we could get it back. I heard that many (or most?) of the Spanish residents have decided not to pay or appeal. Interesting this time there is a lot of focus here... meaning that there are a sufficient number of people willing to step up and fight this - like you - who do have the knowledge and ability to make a change. This fight can't be hidden from the public and there are already disturbing press articles - even in the national press. So the journalists are interested - makes politicians shudder when they are involved:thumbup:

I think the focus for me, should be to improve the EUC by feedback and voting positive change, via the system; by eliciting support from other residents and finally, support any residents association that will be set up.

Good luck in your battle with the EUC and please keep us updated - this is very interesting.... the EUC have only themselves to blame for all this.

Regards

Jon

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8174250)

THE EUC MEETING 28TH DECEMBER, IT HAS BEEN SUSPENDED. THE MOTIVES THAT ARE RUMORED IT IS THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE NOT PAID AND THEY ARE STUDYING THE SITUATION.

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE NEW MEETING IS DONE IN FEBRUARY.

MY QUESTION: IF THE BUDGETS WAS VOTED ON 31 DECEMBER 2008 THEY WERE UNTIL DECEMBER 2009, WHICH ARE THE BUDGETS THAT THE EUC IS GOING TO USE UNTIL FEBRUARY?. THE BUDGETS HAVE TO BE VOTED FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY.

ANOTHER IRREGULARITY MORE OF THE EUC....

HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!!!