Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
 

We have just been informed that all residents on Esuri will some time in the future be responsible for the upkeep of the development (EUC).
Does anyone have any more information on this?

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Yes thats the way it is. Most property will be in a closed community which is established when the property is first sold and you know about this already since you pay your community fees. The next level is an overarching community for Urb CE, all the existing communities would be part of that together with the Ayuntamiento. This community would look after things like the verges and drains seats and waste bins etc. and the council would formerly "adopt" the infrastructure.

This is all explained in David Searls book in the chapters on Horizontal Property Law see pages 355 -358 and in English this is the "Collaborating Urbanistic Entity of Maintenance and Management" shortened to EUC and is a quasi-public entity.

There was a row on a large up-market Urb in Marbella where well known people had property since they claimed they were paying twice for services once to the Town hall in council tax and again to the EUC for the same services but I can see counter arguments to that since the overall bill to the council is less if part of the cost has been borne direct by the EUC.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

PS they say it takes at least 10 years to get to the EUC stage and with Fadesa's woes who knows how long. On the up side the council are already involved since the Mayor agreed to keep up the Fadesa infrastructure maintenance at a reduced level

CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

This a really important issue that not many people know about because they have not been informed.

Contact : c o s t a e s u r i @ y m a i l . c o m

A group of owners on Costa Esuri are trying to contact other owners in an effort to stop the implementation of the EUC. (Urbanistic Entity of Maintenance and Management).

Put very simply, an EUC will create a “community” from the entire development of Costa Esuri, with a private management company taking on the care and maintenance of the common public areas.

The areas which are at present being looked after by the council.

What this means for us all is more community charges; in addition to those already being paid–not instead of. And yes, we will still have to pay our council tax.

The aim is to inform owners of facts so that you are made aware of what your options are.

The aim is not intended to influence or coerce anyone’s thoughts or decisions and if you feel this to be the case, then you have the choice not to contact the group for information.

If you want to make contact with other concerned owners then contact the email address.

The email address is written with spaces to prevent spambots reading it. Just remember to close all the spaces before you email.
c o s t a e s u r i @ y m a i l . c o m

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

I wholeheartedly agree that in the face of the immense changes now forced upon us by world events the whole of Urb CE should band together to react and respond to all proposals and eventualities.

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

I dont understand, why would any group of owners willingly try and take the council off the hook and increase their own costs?

Sounds weird and very masochistic to me!

There must be more to this than meets the eye.

The very little that I know about the EUC is that we have no choice, this will happen and Ive been expecting to pay

1. Community charges for our bit or in our case manzana
2 Inter-community charges for all the 3 common areas. For most people 1 and 2 are ADA, the same crowd, but actually 2 separate accountings
3. EUC for the site as a whole.

If there is any way for the comune of Ayamonte to remain responsible for the EUC-stuff I think everybody would want it. The cant complain as after all they are receiving a BUNCH of taxes from us all and so are required to provide a set of services, road maintenance, trash collection etc.....

I thought the EUC was for the 'special stuff' over and above the normal responsibilities of the commune. If anyone knows more please advise.

Regards

Jon

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

If you are out between February and April come up to my place for a G&T and read my David Searl chapter on this. As I said before an up market development in Marbella complained about just this (Simon Cowell) they think you pay twice for the same service as reported I think in the Daily Mail. See my post #4472

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

Have you read the information backwards?
The “group of owners” as you so boldly highlight are not “willingly trying to take the council off the hook” and “increase their own costs”
they are trying to ensure the exact opposite.
They want the council to take on the responsibility wholly and to NOT pass back the costs to the owners of Costa Esuri.
The very little you do know about the EUC indicates that you are utterly confused.
And the fact that you believe you have no choice indicates you have not bothered to investigate this and are willing to
just accept it from those who told you and simply pay out.
And this is the problem; the few who have heard about it believe the same - that is exactly what those who “do” know about it are counting on.

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

John you regularly refer to David Searl’s book; you are on the right track, it is a great book to introduce the reader to the ways of the ‘Community in Spain’.
It is however only an introduction, an ABC, a very simple guide.
Unfortunately what is written barely touches the sides of what actually goes on in Communities.
As well as referring the reader to community laws as written, Davis Searl also refers the reader to the potential implications when developers and administration companies work together for their own ends and not the ends of the newly signed up property owners; ie Costa Esuri.
Aside from you quoting to forum readers, the sections which state the obligation and necessity of the EUC. For a balanced view, please also refer the readers on BE to the sections which indicate the buck being passed from the developer back to the new property owners in order to pay to complete the works they started; by setting up an EUC.
These sections relate more accurately to the real facts of life on a community.

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

I think you have mis-read Jons post he is making the point that owners would not willingly become part of an EUC if they have choice.

He like me understands that the Law in Spain requires this to happen at some stage, the later the better in my view say 10 - 20 years down the line.

It would be interesting to know if any of the developments at Canela have yet reached the EUC formation stage some have been around for about 20 years.

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

I have done this many times in the past particularly where the developer still owns a majority of property and does not pay his dues and also where commercial development has been completed and not occupied and again do not pay their dues. A search of my posts will turn up these but some might be on earlier versions of this thread.

I am afraid the Law is the Law and we will not change that but we can endeavor to mitigate the impact as much as possible. For instance I am amazed that only One Manzana on the whole of Esuri has dismissed the administrator that was foisted on them by Fadesa and opted for a cheaper and better solution. We need to be very wary that the same administrator is not proposed for the EUC whenever it comes!

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

Hi guys,

I am new to this forum. I have a house on M2, but am very rarely there. I bought it for us to retire to in about 10 years. Can you explain what this EUC is about?

My friends tell me that this has already happened, but I don't remember being asked.

Are we not all supposed to have been asked/informed about this?

I am very worried, the euro is too expensive against the pound for me to ignore more charges.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Re The EUC

I have emailed a copy of an Email we received at RAGO1 to you

Re: CostaEsuri - EUC URGENT
 

Hello Lomas 2
I am also concerned however, your friends obviously know more about this than me or others on the forum. Please tell us what they have to say in more detail.
Regards
Ned

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Thanks for this - but why were we never informed of any of this? It appeared to have happened very quickly.

The euro and the pound is almost equal now, and I am getting slightly worried about the situation. With the mortgage increased in pounds due to the rate, any extra charges really count now.

It appears that Steve Tipper is very well informed. I wish that he was our president! I have written to both our president and our intercommunity president, but have never received any reply.

Does anybody know who will actually be in charge of this? Will it be AEA? Or ADA? If so, it is bound to be very expensive. We appear to be paying a lot more than people administered by other companies. I have been to the ADA office many times, but I get a distinct feeling of being fobbed of every time.

Really worried - would actually sell if the market wasn't so bad. ( Snip, removed because it was hearsay, before posting stuff like that make sure you have the necessary proof. )

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

This is almost like trying to decrypt code what does the email tell us, is it any different to the info that was posted on here before Christmas about the meeting between Intercommunity presidents and the Mayor organised by Fadesa and ADA for the 31st of December. All plot owners were to be invited to that meeting my invite arrived this week.

What we need to know is what was the outcome of the meeting and if the EUC was set up who is the President and were ADA appointed the Administrators?

There is already a monitoring group set up by "Arthur" who is President of one of the communities on Marina Esuri but he was excluded from the public meeting on the 31st. He has however started to list email addresses for all concerned owners and does communicate what he finds out. Look back to early December and add yourself to his list there is strength in numbers. If ADA are in the driving seat they can be deposed at the annual meeting but it will take a tremendous effort to outvote Fadesa who I guess still own a majority of property on Esuri.

However it does help if anyone has info to post it and not speak in guarded terms about matters that affect everyone not just the owners on this or that development. Knowledge is power!

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

if you want to be included in the mailing list to receive information relating to CE and in particular the EUC contact
c o s t a e s u r i @ y m a i l . c o m (remember to close the spaces)

Roger

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYBODY:)

John&Kath I totally agree with you. I live in Esuri from 2006 and nobody advised me or my neighbours about the EUC meeting on 31st of December. By law we (all Esuri owners) have the right to be invited and to decide about the future of Esuri, but how if nobody informs us ? I know that others administrations working in Esuri (ADA is not the only one) have not been informed/invited to that meeting and that´s also illegal. A lawyer friend told me that Arthur should never been excluded from that "public meeting". Why they objected? I only can think in one reason!!!! Looks like the EUC has already been signed last 31 of December. Now the council should make public the meeting minutes in less than one month, after that we (owners) have about 2 months to try to stop the EUC. If we do nothing it will be like in Isla Canela, they lost all their chances to stop their EUC because they were out of time. I support Arthur, he´s working very hard to help all Esuri owners. I really believe that we are the only ones who have the power to decide who will run our future, not Fadesa, ADA or the Town Hall. I am sure Esuri will be a fantastic place to live if we decide to.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

I am sure that the Law provides for everyone to be invited to community meetings and be given adequate notice. That clearly has not happened. I agree that Fadesa nor ADA should decide our future but I am afraid that the Town Hall has to be involved and we can influence that by registering on the Padron and voting in local elections even dare I suggest electing a candidate from Esuri.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

New year new start...I had hoped so, but looking at the posts so far not likely.

Ok so we are not in a perfect position at CE at the moment....but in 5 years things will be much better. Please remember we have a developer thats in administration, we are in the middle of a credit crunch and Spains economy is a basket case.

All told we cannot expect massive changes to CE in the near future. CE is private money....a private company does not build unless it can sell or gain an income from what it builds...so things will move slowly.

If we want accelerated changes then it will cost.

All this talk about ADA deciding the EUC is complete rubbish. The EUC was a condition of the original purchase. The email from the president of Rago 2 was both informative and re-assuring...10 euro a month...does'nt seem bad if it works out as suggested.

Please be clear ADA are just administrators.....they do what they are told to do by the owners who engaged them...they cannot go and vote on a communities behalf and bind us....they have no power to do so.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

BUT Bennie and jdr we are most definitly not part of any community just yet. When and if the EUC is formed we would be part of that so as yet we have no President to represent us! That is why the plot owners were invited individually and separatly but not until after the meeting had been held. Who is going to tell us the outcome of a meeting we could not attend due to late invatations?

Also not all communties that are constituted on Esuri use ADA as the management company so there must be another line of communication perhaps from the Town Hall direct since they sent out my invatation.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

If you have property in the main Costa Esuri development (ie the urbanization) then you must be part of the main community, the same as the smaller blocks of apartments, but these also have their own presidents.
The main president sets out the rules and costs of the ubanization, these are then given to the other presidents who in turn let the other apartment owners know so they can pay their share.
The apartment owners also have other charges to pay as worked out by their president for the upkeep of their community block, whatever they name it.
If the presidents do their job you should never be paying double for services as some of you think you are.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Hi all, just picked up a copy of the Oracle (dated 9th January). The next copy (due out on the 6th of Feb.) will be called the Costa de la Luz Resident having been taken over by the Resident Group. On page 3 is a article entitled Costa Esuri Takes on EUC Status. Mike and Bryony

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

I would agree that at some stage we must become part of an EUC (as laid out in Searl CH 20) but until now there has been no movement to form an EUC. It has now been formed and we were excluded from the meeting by way of the late invitation. This is not how it should be done. I have now read the results of the meeting and I believe false information is being given for instance that Fades are no longer in Administration this is just not true. They are viable in the eyes of the Judge to trade their way out of Administration so will not be forced into bankruptcy but will still be supervised by the Judge as Administrator.

The Mayor is to be president of the EUC I have no problems with that but a local solicitor is to be Secetary what will his charges be for that service and should that not have been tendered out for the best price.

The board will consist of 5 members and the Secretary two of those members will be from Fadesa WHY? The other two members will be an intercommunity president and another person not identified. Who represents the plot owners views? All this for €120 per annum on top of €500 Council Tax not a bargin in my view.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

The people who will work on the EUC committee will not be paid. The person not identified is a Spanish, local, lady developer. The cost for Rago 2 apartments owners is 10 euros per month but the average cost is 22 euros per month. It all depends on the size of the property.
The people who wanted to be part of the committee put themselves forward and they were voted in. Each person at the meeting had a voice and a vote.
ADA have nothing to do with the EUC.
Hope this clears up the speculation.

Costa Esuri - Ayamonte
 

You have summed it up perfectly, the onus is on the owner to find out what is happening.
I am sorry to say they need to attend the meetings if they want to do something about it, it is so difficult to change things later.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

I was not present at the meeting although I was entitled to be there so I was disenfranchised. I firmly believe in NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION I would have put myself foreward had I been informed in time to attend. What is a local solicitor who does not have a house on Esuri on the board unpaid for. I suspect that the Secretary post will be remunerated or expenses paid which at Spanish legal rates will be expensive. If ADA have nothing to do with the EUC why did they call the meeting and attend alongside Fadesa? I am sorry until full minutes of the meeting are published and accounts made avaiable the speculation will grow and the suspicions increase.

Why were community Presidents excluded from the meeting only to be told by Town Hall staff that it was a public meeting and under the Royal Decree 3288/1978 and Law 8/1999 they were entitled and should have attended.

So the true cost for a plot owner is going to be €264 on top of the €500 council tax for what looks like double taxation to me since I will get no extra services for the 50% increase in my costs

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Hi Luz:)

Do you think that 10€ per month (I don´t want to think about 22€) plus the council tax, plus the monthly manzana fee, plus the monthly intercommunity fee etc.... that´s about 100€ per month, I bet Sotogrande owners pay less and there is a "small" difference.
How much people was in that meeting, the people who wanted to be there or the few invited? Who was my voice? who voted for me? Fadesa???
I don´t know if ADA has something to do with the EUC but the true is that others Administrations working in Esuri have not been informed about that meeting for example our Administrator.
I am not worried if the people who will work on the EUC committee will be paid or not, I personally don´t believe that is much people around like Madre Teresa (unfortunately) what really worries me is that a person like Arthur I would like to be my voice in that meeting was excluded.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

"What is a local solicitor who does not have a house on Esuri on the board unpaid for. "

Do beleive that the solicitor in question does have an interest in property on Esuri. This is not "hearsay" as he acted for us on our purchase and told us this, however from experience of the service we personally received must say have concerns about any representation that may be given by him. Can't speak for others though?

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Why let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory
As you so rightly stated Yorkshire Scratcher, ADA had nothing to do with the meeting and were not present. They did not accompany the Fadesa representatives. The Presidents of ADA administered properties did not sit with the Fadesa representatives nor did they act as advisors. Neither party was sympathetic to the other.
Sometimes information has to be sought out, as many people on this thread do. If nobody choose to investigate when the meeting was going ahead then should we blame a third party for that?
As far back as the 17th. December Roger77 told us about the EUC. Did people ask their administrators to find out more? Did administrators try and find out more? All the information was in the public domain for anyone who choose to seek it out and attend the meeting.
Presidents could attend the meeting provided they could prove who they were ie; the minutes book from the meeting when they were elected President.
The meeting did not consist of "those people designated by Fadesa and invited by ADA"
It seems that if hearsay is repeated over and over then it becomes reality - a very frightening prospect.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Happy New Year mis esurianos.
My apologies, I am afraid I have so many questions:

1. Who is the President of the Costa Esuri Urbanization? It is Fadesa, isn't it?
2. Who else, along with the Mayor and the owners of individual parcelas, would have been invited to this (Fadesa's) meeting? (I am answering my own question, again.) The Presidents of each CP (Comunidad de propietarios): Las Encinas & Vista Esuri apartments & penthouses (RAGOs I & II), Marina Esuri apartments & duplexes (RMA I), Las Lomas townhouses(RVA4), and Las Jarras townhouses (RVA1?). Have I missed anybody? These are only the Fadesa sites, I believe.
3. What about the Guadiana Golf CP, Los Albatros CP, Ayad Golf CP, Sea & Sun CP, etc? Aren't they all part of the Urbanizacion, and therefore, part of the new EUC?
4. Was there any representation on their behalf? Did the meeting on the 31st December meet quorum?
5. Has a constitution for the EUC been drafted?

That'll do for now.
In case anyone should reply with the questions: "Why don't you know all the answers? You are a property owner, aren't you?" I would just like to say that I have read enough of "ajo y agua".:sneaky:

Carol

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Hello Luz,
You are correct, the information has been available.
Since 2005 (earliest I've found) & 2008 (latest I've found):
http://www.derecho.com/l/bop-huelva/...ipal-ayamonte/
http://www.derecho.com/l/bop-huelva/...ipal-ayamonte/

Carol

P.S. The relevant pages are 7583 - 7593 from the first pdf.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Hi Carol & John:)

In our case I think the information should be available from our administrators.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

The Mayor of Ayamonte who is a lawyer by profession and should be a very senior member of the board in any event.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

An EUC which is what has just been formed is a quasi - public body that acts as the over - arching community for all of the detached villas and other communities at CE. The authorisation of the Town Hall is required to form the entity that is the EUC. The regulations allow private persons to share administration of the services with the municipal authority.

It seems to me that the Mayor has a right to be on the board and why not make him President since he represents the single most powerful voice.

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Can't find any page numbers!

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

My apologies, John. Looks like I copied twice. Here it is:
http://www.diphuelva.es/asp/BOP/pdf/20051026-1.pdf
Pages are numbered on the top of the page.
Can you open the file? If not, google search using: estatutos entidad urbanistica conservacion esuri fadesa. This pdf is the third on the list. The other link (derecho) is the 7th on the list. This is a modification of the earlier one (26 Oct. 2005).
Carol

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

I get the point when you say the Mayor has been elected onto the board for the EUC. However, my question remains, who is/was the President of the CE Urb. prior to the formation of the EUC?

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Found it. I always expected the EUC to be formed since the Law says it must be but I worry about the undue haste which seemed to have happened just before Christmas and immediately following the announcement by the supervising Judge that Fadesa was solvent and could trade out of Administration.

Fadesa must still own over 1000 properties and a large number of plots so they will have a huge ongoing commitment to pay their share of the EUC costs. Is this €6m that they have put forward in lieu of further payments or is it as it should be to bring the infrastructure up to scratch before adoption by the Ayuntamiento with the normal annual payments to follow. Will the EUC be registered as a creditor to make sure that the payments are made?

Re: COSTA ESURI - AYAMONTE
 

Until the formation of the EUC there was no over - arching body to be President of.