Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7774142)

Must agree when we last saw it the landscapeing from the entrance all the way up around the townhouses was looking great Rago one looked good as well and the news that improvements to the road surface are welcome. Howevre the news that the EUC has cut back on the maintenance work does not bode well for the future.

Originally Posted by MEL & JOHN (Post 7774194)

Hi John

Your place looking great too. Yep.....EUC van parked up and standing all the time we were there. What has happened with all that, what company was liaising with the EUC and meant to be paying them.....paying from where ? Got confused with all this.

Would be good if we had the fountain in the round about working as already mentioned. Glad to see the post advising that the hole in the road at the round about at the bottom of the townhouses is being repaired. I tell what I think is lethal that long piece of concrete sticking out on the stretch between the supermarket building and the round about just b4 the apartments. How anybody has not had serious damage to their vehicle from that amazes me......most of us are aware of it but any newcomer arriving at night could have a shock.

If anybody can clarify the EUC whole thing for me it would be appreciated.

thanks

mel
Mel

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7774231)

The best explanation is contained in a book "You and the Law in Spain" but in summary all new Urbs are set up so that there is a rising hierachy of bodies starting with one for an individual block then a collection of blocks and in the case of an Urb as big s CE an EUC that covers all the blocks and RAGO's etc and includes individal villas. If the original developer survives to the end say 10-15 years it is only implemented at that stage but in our case MF are in administration so the Ayuntamiento brought it forward early (the statutes were set up as early as 2004 but not implemented). All property owners should be paying towards the EUC and of course MF are the biggest so they would have most to pay but they are in administration so they do not pay. The council have a €4m bond but have not called that in yet.

Originally Posted by MEL & JOHN (Post 7774283)

Thanks John, but we are not paying directly are we ? We are paying to ADA the admin company our M2 fees and Inter-cmmty fees. Do the Ayuntamiento pay the EUC from our "council rates" and if so did they start to pay (as somebody invested in a van and the sign writing on it) then stopped for some reason. I cannot get a handle on this at all.

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7774359)

No the council are a part of the EUC the Mayor is the president but each property owner has to pay directly on top of his payments to the other bodies. The council would claim that the council tax would need to be higher for everyone in Ayamonte if the Urbs did not have an EUC to fund all the work that they need. There are arguements both ways but a very high class Urb in Malaga with Simon Cowell and other such celebs as owners did try a class action to avoid payment but I don't know the outcome. They were using the arguement that they were paying twice.

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7774359)

No the council are a part of the EUC the Mayor is the president but each property owner has to pay directly on top of his payments to the other bodies. The council would claim that the council tax would need to be higher for everyone in Ayamonte if the Urbs did not have an EUC to fund all the work that they need. There are arguements both ways but a very high class Urb in Malaga with Simon Cowell and other such celebs as owners did try a class action to avoid payment but I don't know the outcome. They were using the arguement that they were paying twice.

Originally Posted by MEL & JOHN (Post 7774812)

Sorry to pester you John...bet you wished you never mentioned it ! Ok...so the community fees I pay to ADA include a payment to the EUC ? I didn't think so and we are not paying anybody else, good job as EUC are not doing anything . Must dash off to netball - no I don't play anymore, was politely told some time ago not to treat myself to new trainers for the coming season - subtle or what !

Originally Posted by MEL & JOHN (Post 7774812)

Sorry to pester you John...bet you wished you never mentioned it ! Ok...so the community fees I pay to ADA include a payment to the EUC ? I didn't think so and we are not paying anybody else, good job as EUC are not doing anything . Must dash off to netball - no I don't play anymore, was politely told some time ago not to treat myself to new trainers for the coming season - subtle or what !

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 7775338)

Hi Mel

To answer your question, we will have to pay for the EUC.. and I believe separately. This will be an additional bill

They tried to have ADA do it, pay the EUC and charge us, but ADA (quite rightly) said that they didnt want to take the responsibility + extra overhead and eg chasing people up etc for this.

So expect a bill to come in sometime.

This is the last I heard - but may have changed since.

They have nice new cars etc, so its nice to know that in this recession we CE-ers are creating jobs, and have created some business for the garages, etc....!!:frown:

We are a cash cow for the region....

Enjoy the trainers

Jon

Originally Posted by MEL & JOHN (Post 7777172)

John and Jon

Many thanks for your explanations.....I am clearer now as we have not paid anything - as yet. I was wondering how we personally had paid and if it was wrapped up in ADA charges but very pleased that they are not taking it on as well. So who are the EUC, who has set them up, who will bill us.....pesky arn't I ?

Cheers Mel

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 7777511)

HI Mel

Now you are pushing my knowledge... My understanding The EUC are a group of people who are well known in Ayamonte and realise we are a cash cow and together they have come together to make a business of administering the common areas, cleaning it up, repairs etc. i.e the areas non ADA (or others) i.e non community + non inter community.

So the verge, trees, gardens etc around the common roads etc. One could argue that the council should do this as we pay our property taxes, but that debate happened on the forum - and in the real world the EUC won. I suspect some people are getting richer as a result, but they are doing a service around CE. How good it is we'll see, and the value for money we'll see, but there are brand new cars with EUC on them and people working on the development... so it all has a veneer.

I dont see an EUC equivalent around e.g Isla Canela, and apparentely it was Fadesa's responsibility for 14 years before they went bust. I dont think we can eventually claim back that money from them as part of the admin process however, so we pay.

How we will receive our bills is interesting - what is also interesting is that they made these investments in people and vehicles ec well in advance (several months so) of billing - so I dont know where they got the money from, up front.

Ive heard all sorts of rumours - but I am expecting to pay something like 20-25 a month for this - for a 3 bed appt. Ive heard much higher prices, so well see....

I'm suspicious of all this and hope that all the money put in by us - is actually used as it should be. We'll see......

That's about all I know, and I could have all this wrong, so if somebody out there knows better, please advise

Thanks and regards
Jon

PS cant wait to see that donkey+calf!

Originally Posted by MEL & JOHN (Post 7778259)

Thanks so much for the replies. Yes, I was thinking who, what, how, where did the EUC get the money from to start up. Whilst we have not paid anything it is a mystery............did the Mayor, "council" ?? pay and if it was administered then by whom ? Not ADA so is there another admin company ?
I really don't want to have to be paying another lot of fees but accept that, to keep CE well maintained, we have to do so and trust they will be reasonable. Anybody on here know Steve Tipper and can he be approached to explain the system to us and the additional cost. I sincerely hope nobody will ask me to pay for vans (and the sign-writing on them) which are left on the verges doing nothing. I trust also we are not going to have a shock back-payment charge from ....whoever ?

Please folks don't feel you have to reply as I am on my soap-box but if anybody can give a full explanation to us all...where are you Steve Tipper ?.....that would give some peace of mind.

All the best

Mel

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF (Post 7780692)

EUC

John & Cath are correct. The EUC is legal, and established. The President is the Mayor of Ayamonte, and Steven Tipper (President of the VISTA ESURI Inter Community (ie RAGO 2)), is a member. The EUC has engaged a contractor (Confit Servi) to look after Security, and to do whatever gardening and repair work that is needed, on those areas of Costa Esuri that are outside the individual Community and Inter-Community Areas.

My understanding is that the funding for this contract is currently being provided by the Ayamonte Council, and will be recovered from Costa Esuri residents via a supplement to their local authority tax. This size of the supplement will be proportional to the rateable value of their property, be this a villa, house, apartment, or plot. I also understand that this could be 20€ approx per month or thereabouts.

I don't think Mel & John need to be quite as pessimistic about the misuse of funds. Steve Tipper has the sort of personality which will ensure that our interests are being fully looked after, and he will not allow his lack of Spanish to be exploited (In any event, his wife is fully conversant in Spanish). I also believe that it is very incorrect to say that the "large majority" of CE residents are Brits. In any case, the Spanish are just as keen as the Brits with regard to ensuring value for money. Its time we started regarding the Spanish as being with us, rather than being in a separate camp.

It would also appear that some people are unaware of their obligations to pay local authority taxes. All CE owners are liable for such a tax. In Spanish law, it is the responsibility of the individual to ensure that the tax is paid; its not acceptable to try and blame the local authority for not seeking it in the first place. Furthermore, there is a automatic penalty payment for not paying the tax on time. The close involvement of the Ayamonte Council with CE means that it will not take then long to find out who is paying and who is not.

Whether or not we should be paying this supplement, additional to the normal local authority tax, is a debateable point. However, if the amount involved remains as low as is currently predicted, then the benefit of ensuring that the general standards at CE remain at their current level, thereby helping to preserve the value of individual properties, makes its payment a worthwhile investment.

Taff

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF (Post 7780692)

EUC

My understanding is that the funding for this contract is currently being provided by the Ayamonte Council, and will be recovered from Costa Esuri residents via a supplement to their local authority tax. This size of the supplement will be proportional to the rateable value of their property, be this a villa, house, apartment, or plot. I also understand that this could be 20€ approx per month or thereabouts.

ITaff

Originally Posted by shirley and anthony hide (Post 7780957)

On that point,last year we paid cash for our IBI bill and set up a direct debit mandate for subsequent years.
Does anyone know when the Council actually takes the money??
We should see then if anything has been tagged on.

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF (Post 7780692)

EUC

John & Cath are correct. The EUC is legal, and established. The President is the Mayor of Ayamonte, and Steven Tipper (President of the VISTA ESURI Inter Community (ie RAGO 2)), is a member. The EUC has engaged a contractor (Confit Servi) to look after Security, and to do whatever gardening and repair work that is needed, on those areas of Costa Esuri that are outside the individual Community and Inter-Community Areas.

My understanding is that the funding for this contract is currently being provided by the Ayamonte Council, and will be recovered from Costa Esuri residents via a supplement to their local authority tax. This size of the supplement will be proportional to the rateable value of their property, be this a villa, house, apartment, or plot. I also understand that this could be 20€ approx per month or thereabouts.

I don't think Mel & John need to be quite as pessimistic about the misuse of funds. Steve Tipper has the sort of personality which will ensure that our interests are being fully looked after, and he will not allow his lack of Spanish to be exploited (In any event, his wife is fully conversant in Spanish). I also believe that it is very incorrect to say that the "large majority" of CE residents are Brits. In any case, the Spanish are just as keen as the Brits with regard to ensuring value for money. Its time we started regarding the Spanish as being with us, rather than being in a separate camp.

It would also appear that some people are unaware of their obligations to pay local authority taxes. All CE owners are liable for such a tax. In Spanish law, it is the responsibility of the individual to ensure that the tax is paid; its not acceptable to try and blame the local authority for not seeking it in the first place. Furthermore, there is a automatic penalty payment for not paying the tax on time. The close involvement of the Ayamonte Council with CE means that it will not take then long to find out who is paying and who is not.

Whether or not we should be paying this supplement, additional to the normal local authority tax, is a debateable point. However, if the amount involved remains as low as is currently predicted, then the benefit of ensuring that the general standards at CE remain at their current level, thereby helping to preserve the value of individual properties, makes its payment a worthwhile investment.

Taff

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 7780771)

Hi Taff

Thanks for the detail here, please note that I am not criticising our EUC president, however whether his wife is fluent or not, I do think meetings should be bi-lingual - it does seem strange to me that he is there, as president, whilst all the discussions are going on and he cant understand them! I want to repeat, up front, that I am not criticising anyone... just trying to change the meetings themselves.

Being able to understand, to make real time discussion points and have a real debate must be better - in ANY meeting, surely!

The ADA meetings are bi-lingual (as are our own separate community meetings are in our Manzana) - its not at all a precedent I am asking for. I am suggesting/recommending that each Brit there pushes for it. I remain convinced this is only reasonable in this case.

I dont see why there should be any problem with the EUC being bi-lingual - like the rest of them.

It wasnt Mel+John that was concerned about potential misuse, it was me, and I do feel that we are a cash cow. Its for this that I want open meetings that all can understand. Sure its OK for the Spanish, who dont want to throw money away, but I want the Brits also to be able to follow the meetings, and partake in real time debate (I thought/think we were in a big majority in CE, you say I'm wrong, OK but it surprises me, Im not sure )

Great points about the council tax and also the additional payment they will ask for for the EUC - thanks. It can also be set up by Direct Debit, so one wont miss it or pay a penalty, if one is OK with the whole billing process/accuracy.

Im waiting to see how much they will charge me before I make comment about the value we get.

Regards
Jon

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7781017)

It really is an odd system you cannot pay before 1st July and it must be paid before 30th September. I left it with my bank with the instruction to pay on the 30/09/2008 and thats what they did. Tried to pay this year in June and they said no not until September.

Not sure about the cost being added to the IBI the EUC and the Ayuntamiento are entirley separate. The council were funding works at CE from the time when MF went into Administration before the EUC was activated. There was only one car thro April May and June and what it was supposed to do I do not know the Maxi security firm had 2 or 3 cars funded by the major builders.

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF (Post 7781062)

Hello Jon,

Do you have anything that substantiates your claim that EUC meeting are in Spanish only? I'd assumed that they had an interpreter and were conducted in both languages, as with the Rago 2 Inter-community meetings. In any event, there has been much not exactly democratic about the way the EUC has been run so far. The installing meeting was certainly held without prior notification of all involved owners. Decisions on services and their financing appear to be made again without reference to owners. Similarly, the EUC committee was self appointed, and contrary to John and Kath's statement, I don't believe we have been invited to any meetings, nor given the capability of voting down proposals.

All that said, with such a large and diverse set of owners, I think it would be impossible to run things truly democratically. I have sufficient faith in Steven Tipper (he's a member, but not the EUC president) to believe that he will ensure that the autocratic system that will run things will be sufficiently benevolent to satisfy me. Time will tell; if I feel in future that the funds required are too high in respect of the quality of service, then I may change my mind and try and do something about it. In the meantime, I will let things progress without interference.

Its clear that you do pay your local authority tax. However, I got the impression from this blog that, maybe, some others don't. As such, I felt that a word of warning was warranted.

Taff

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF (Post 7781062)

Hello Jon,

Do you have anything that substantiates your claim that EUC meeting are in Spanish only? I'd assumed that they had an interpreter and were conducted in both languages, as with the Rago 2 Inter-community meetings. In any event, there has been much not exactly democratic about the way the EUC has been run so far. The installing meeting was certainly held without prior notification of all involved owners. Decisions on services and their financing appear to be made again without reference to owners. Similarly, the EUC committee was self appointed, and contrary to John and Kath's statement, I don't believe we have been invited to any meetings, nor given the capability of voting down proposals.

All that said, with such a large and diverse set of owners, I think it would be impossible to run things truly democratically. I have sufficient faith in Steven Tipper (he's a member, but not the EUC president) to believe that he will ensure that the autocratic system that will run things will be sufficiently benevolent to satisfy me. Time will tell; if I feel in future that the funds required are too high in respect of the quality of service, then I may change my mind and try and do something about it. In the meantime, I will let things progress without interference.

Its clear that you do pay your local authority tax. However, I got the impression from this blog that, maybe, some others don't. As such, I felt that a word of warning was warranted.

Taff

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 7782478)

Why not ask a kind mod to pull all the posts about EUC out and start a specific thread for them, then there will be an easy way to search and retrieve the information instead of getting lost in this mish mash thread ?

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 7782478)

Why not ask a kind mod to pull all the posts about EUC out and start a specific thread for them, then there will be an easy way to search and retrieve the information instead of getting lost in this mish mash thread ?

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 7782421)

Hi Taff

Firstly in order to save any possible miscommunication, let me once again thank you for the great post you did and the information about the tax, for example, which I also thanked you for in my reply.

Its this type sharing of information, from great people that take the time to do so, that has made this forum very valuable for me. Also the discussion that ensues after the kind of post that you did is very interesting for all.

I'm wrong that Mr Tipper is the president, for some reason I thought he was - and I hope that it was very clear that I was in no way criticising him personally. I would never do something like that in a public forum.
The Mayor is the President Steve Tipper is the English rep on the board (and he speaks English too).

I cant substantiate this except to say that I know someone very well who is fluent who attends these meetings and told me that they are in Spanish only. I trust this person implicitly.
I also have that implicit trust as they tipped me off to the meeting and told me how to gain admittance but at 5.00pm on that Friday I was putting my son on a plane at Faro so just not possible to attend.
It was also notified in a local English speaking paper.

Your reply actually adds meat to the discussion, to help me and some others that are reading this. (E.g. I had no idea that the EUC charge would be added to the council tax) You know more about the EUC than I do.
I am still not sure that can happen certainly when I go to pay my IBI on the 30/09/2008 I already know that for the year it is only €5.60 more expensive than last year. On the other hand it would be the cheapest way to collect it and would automatically fine those who did not pay just so long as the fines were also spent on CE!

To summarise:

1) You thought the meetings had an interpreter, so we are on the same page about bi-lingual meetings. In fact in the last meeting, I'm told, the wife of one of the members offered to do so (for a charge). I don't believe this was noted down in the minutes. I have misplaced the mail I got, but I don't recall even seeing minutes, just an overall discussion
I too have never seen minutes. Just a report in that same English paper of the inaugral meeting.

2) I remain suspicious about the EUC, and the fact that we are a cash cow. We were in CE when the last meeting was held, that was NOT publicised, we heard by accident through this friend, and e.g actually informed John+Kath about it, who as plot owners didn't know. There's not much that they don't know about CE et al ! :) All the rest that you say about non-democratic decisions, not informing people of meetings, self appointed boards etc etc, simply underlines my suspicion about the whole thing. When I hear that its non-English, it just adds fuel to the fire, for me.
Should we not all be suspicious about our masters (witness the ex's scandel in UK) It behoves us all to attend when invited and to keep on top of the proceedings even if they are in the national tongue of Spain.
The Board was not self appointed just voted in by those very few present at the first meeting. The only non-owner on the board is the Mayor and we can vote on him at the Municipal elections (we are all on the Padron after all!).

Nothing is perfect as you say - and we cant expect a perfect democratic organisation for something like this. However to return to the main point that I want to make, that we agree on I think: The least we can do about this is to ensure bi-lingual meetings, with an interpreter (like all others), so that EVERYBODY, board members to the concerned owner-audience can understand what's going on and partake in the discussion.
I am sure that they will allow an interpreter at the meeting if asked wittness the English only email address. Minutes any minutes published in English as well as Spanish would be wonderful.

I'll pay up of course, but I want to make sure we are not setting up a system to 'line someone's pocket' ..... too much. For me, openness is key to this, and its early enough to try and make sure the system is as secure as possible.
Be very careful here the €20 a month quote was just that only a quote and qualified as typical but you can bet it was for the smallest property on CE and a 3 bed duplex on Marina Esuri will be 3 times that. God knows what a house on a plot comes out at maybe €750 pa.

Hopefully this discussion will help us get some way there.

My thanks to you Jon for getting us going.

Thanks again

Jon

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7782534)

Oh shut up for now and go with the flow this is too important to to let it get away from us now.

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 7782617)

Hi John, in a bad mood today? I've never been told off by you before!

I started this as I heard there was no realtime bilingual meeting and have posted a lot over the past few days on this. I also am very suspicious about where the money is/will go with the EUC. But I think Im done now with these comments - otherwise I just repeat myself.

Just took a little break to respond to another post.... hope alls well with you

Jon

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7782644)

No just pulling your leg we are all fine. Just seen the news pictures of the awful fires on the Med coast and just hope they do not spread our way.

You are right to be cautious about the cost but I agree with other commentators the Spanish in particular should be watching the expense like hawks since they have no more money than us to waste in the credit crunch and they should know how to keep the costs down in Spain.

I would say that the one car I saw apart the grounds maintenance teams that I saw did a really good job and the main dual carriageway looked fantastic just before the holiday season started so that must be good for everyone who wants to impress the renters. Also the intercommunity teams were really pulling the stops out so overall the place looked very nice.

The only disappointment is really the plots and I can't see what you can do about that except keep the rubish down to a minimum.

Originally Posted by shirley and anthony hide (Post 7782868)

The bit that concerns me is that EUC seems to be up and running.
So questions are.
1)Where is the money coming from as no one has paid diddly squat yet.
2)If and when we are charged will it be backdated ,and from when.
3)All we have heard is hearsay about the cost,ie 20 Euro per month maybe but adjusted for coefficient or property possibly.
Surely when it was agreed to set up EUC, costs must have been assessed or
was it a suck it and see job.

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7782531)

Brilliant idea now if you were a mod and not just an old lag like me you could do it but I suppose we will have to go down on bended kknee to Mitzy' where is he when you need him

Super Sue or Good ole Mitzzy would you please find all the posts on Costa Esuri EUC and post on a new thread on the Ayamonte club sub forum. It only started at Christmas 2008 so a search to about October should do it. Jon BXL Andy s and us have posted but there were others.

Prettyplease many thanks in anticipation your ever grateful subjects John and Kath!!!

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 7783264)

Come on mitz, they`re on a roll. :-))
Put the latest ones on , then get the others later.

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7781138)

Anyone who wants to contact theEUC can do so by email in English at

[email protected]

this is a firm of solicitors in Huelva and is not the "EUC" or confiserv.

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 7783352)

Hi John Who are these people and what is their function in CE please? I thought the Moron Pendas brothers were the lawyers associated with the EUC?

Just try and be nice this time, in your reply, please :p:p

Jon

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7783274)

Oh come on Mitzy such a super techie as you a quick search on CE EUC and the jos done pretty please? :fingerscrossed::D

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 7783463)

OOh you are a one! Truth be told I don't really know.

MP are not to the best of my knowledge acting in any official capacity for the EUC. One of the principals is elected to be the Secretary to the board and he does that as a property owner on knob (spelling?) hill (a townhouse on the hill).

When my street lights did not work this was the addy I was given and told it was a legal firm in Huelva but that they were not the legal reps for the EUC nor were they connected to Confi Serv but they did get my lights fixed quick then they asked for my contact details so I became wary at that stage. They do of course have my email so if they want me they can soon write. However I wrote to them in English and they replied in Englsh so I cannot complain just feel guilty at my complete lack of Spanish.

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 7784755)

Hmmm........ another strange thing about the EUC, a legal firm that helps but are not the legal reps for EUC.

Getting weirder daily!

We need full bi-lingual meetings in real time, with full disclosure... after all we are paying for it... and so it isnt a favour from anyone if we demand it!

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl (Post 7784758)

Its not such a 'mess' either..... this thread is great - and the people that give us a hard time, have their own problems.