dont kick the uk govt if you are not prepared to kick the spanish govt.

reason for riots is different but they is still riots.

go to bed and dream of riots

I completely agree. I watched last night's events with horror and disbelief that the looting and arson was being allowed to go on unchallenged whilst reporters at the scene were saying that police vans were parked up two streets away. No wonder the people carrying out these crimes have no fear of the police.

Tonight I see that the looting and rioting has flared up in my home city of Manchester, on Market Street which is the very centre of the city. Knowing it like the back of my hand, it would be so easy for the police to have confined the rioters in that one street, just block off either end and 4 small side streets is all it would take, and then tear gas the lot of them and take them off the streets. But it hasn't happened and now at least one shop is on fire there too. Why was it allowed to happen? The police have plenty of practice in keeping crowds of potentially violent football fans out of the city centre on match days, why didn't they step in today to prevent these gangs getting into the main shopping area?

I share your fears that more and more communities will feel driven to take vigilante action to protect themselves as the police have shown themselves unable or unwilling to do it, and then we really will be witnessing the breakdown of society. I couldn't believe it when I saw the Home Secretary today bleating that we must continue to rely on traditional British policing methods and that we police by consent - hasn't anybody told her that the other side aren't playing by those rules?

As for the Mark Duggan incident (and whilst this might have been the original flashpoint what is going on now has absolutely nothing to do with it) apparently the IPCC have now confirmed that the gun which the police claim was his was not fired, and the only two shots fired at the scene came from a police weapon. So yet again the Metropolitan police lied in their initial version of what had happened - so by lying they demonstrated that they were fully aware that they had done something wrong. If their actions were justified they had no need to lie. If they now claim that Mark Duggan's fingerprints were on the other gun, I am afraid that I would find it all too credible that they were lying about that too. Very easy to put a gun in a dead man's hand, no? And why did it take until today for the IPCC to get around to interviewing the guy driving the taxi?

The thought processes you put into this must be simply breathtaking. So, let me get this completely straight. I am not fit to comment about this riot, because I haven't criticised the Spanish government over the riots in Madrid?
Sheesh.
You forgot the Greek riots! Dammit, I must rush off forthwith and prepare a critique on every government that has dealt with a riot, or I will be disbarred from commenting.

I'd mock you, but how could I compare with what you are doing to yourself?

You want to be careful posting stuff like that. If you dare to criticise the general take on the riots, you will have aggie and co leaping up and down on you.

Or our little Republican friend from the States will call you a moron too, tho how he has the nerve after Bush, Iraq, Afghanistan, WMDs et all, I'm at a loss to know. Either that or he'll tell us how he saved our ass in WW2. I LOVE it when the little morons do that.

Good post. It might still be that this was a legal shooting, and the stories about Duggan firing didn't come from the police. We shall see.

For the sake of general law and order we must hope this isn't a repetition of the brazilian being butchered and then defamed by police lies.

Wheres a link to a statement by the Met saying that the drug dealing gangster
shot at the Police?

That would be interesting. I was looking to try and find where that story came from, but no luck. Anyone got any ideas? No matter what the answer, it would at least clear the air.

and here it is

"But Duggan, a known offender from London’s notorious Broadwater Farm Estate, became aware that he was being followed and opened fire on the officers.
He shot the officer from Scotland Yard’s elite firearms squad CO19 in the side of his chest with a handgun.
The bullet lodged in the police radio that the undercover officer was carrying in a side pocket.
Armed officers shot the gunman dead seconds later."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-shootout.html

Oh yeah. Dick. Now this is a rag.

I'm afraid I can't get too excited about the police shooting an armed, drug dealer. The man's revolver was loaded with live ammunition and he was being pursued by officers from operation Trident, an extremely efficient crime unit set up over 30 years ago to deal with black on black murders in London.

For someone to suggest that the armed officers should wait until the crack dealer turned the revolver in their direction and fired at them is about as silly as it can get.

I don't want a police officer shot by a scumbag. I consider it a poor trade. If the guy was posing a threat, I don't care what happened. I just want reassureance that the police were acting properly. I don't think that's too much too ask, especially given what has happened in the past.

Some may think that the police are entitled to shoot scumbags on sight. I think that's a step too far. I remember a policeman once saying about a man who had been wrongly jailed for murder. On his release, the officer shrugged and said "He was guilty of something."

I just don't find that reassuring.

That crack dealer was so popular in the community only 3 bunches of flowers were left at the death scene. Considering the false outpourings of grief nowadays says it all really. The riots now are not about a crack dealer, just I want one of those scum. Time someone spared a thought to the people (many who are at the bottom of the pile) that have been burnt out of their homes and lost everything.

Let's just hope the police are more effective tonight, eh?

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children.
Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges.

You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot.

You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?

BRITISH POLICE OFFICER'S Answer :


Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?

Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?

Could we run away?

What does my wife think?

What about the kids?

Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?

What does the law say about this situation?

Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?

Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?

Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?

Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?

If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?

Should I call 999?

If I raise my gun and he turns and runs away, do I get blamed when he falls over, knocks his head and kills himself? ..

If I shoot him, and lose the court case, does he have the opportunity to sue me, cost me my job, my credibility and the loss of my family home?



AUSTRALIAN OFFICER'S Answer:

BANG!



AMERICAN OFFICER'S Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! 'click'....

Daughter: 'Nice grouping, Dad! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips?'

And the same people who cry police brutality also complain of Police ineffectiveness. You can't have an emasculated 'force to be reckoned with'.
I want my Police force to be Honest Upstanding Caring Loyal...And just a little bit scary!

Really? That's a shame. When my son was young we were walking thru Cambridge, and as we passed a group of coppers chatting to each other, I picked him up and walked over to them. I told him that if he was ever lost, he could go up to a policeman and ask for help, and that policeman would bring him back safe to us. The copper was a sweetie, and he shook my son's hand and told him he could always be sure they they would help him.

I'd rather have police like that. Honest? oh yes, they have to be honest.

There was an interesting comment made by a black guy living there to the media looking at what was going on in the riots. He said that the media shouldn't just report that the rioters were mindless thugs that rioted and stole. They should also ask why it is that youths born and raised in this country should turn into thugs and robbers.

I had to smile, because I could just imagine what would happen if he had dared to say such a thing on here. He'd have been shouted down pdq as being a soft leftie giving in to rioters and being too pc and all that sort of thing..... and why?

Oh yeah. This is a bit like the rubbish talked about how you aren't allowed to defend your home.

Oh yes you are, as long as you use appropriate force, which can include deadly force, and the police can too. They just have to demonstrate that the force that they use isn't excessive. Or are you happy with the police being able to use excessive force?