Tegwyn

Well Ed, now what do you have to say about this prize's latest comment?

all ways wired

well tegwyn, now what do you have to say about this prize's latest comment??????
p.s before you get going, my money is on you looking a touch like the little one off the crankies

shiftdelete

how about introducing yourself properly and contributing something meaningful- if ededed can do it, anyone can

Tegwyn

Keep going and you will soon see the door out of this site. Want to continue insulting, go right ahead.

ededed

Errrr......thanks! I think.

Please mind yourself. I'm not going to sit here and defend Teg, she is more than capable of doing that herself - personal attacks don't strengthen your argument, they just make you look like a tool who can't structure a coherent sentence. Seagull posting is the fastest way to a ban, so as mentioned before, watch your step.

If you have something to add to the debate, rational and reasoned argument will win over abuse and insults.

Not that I have ever won an argument on here.....

Tegwyn

Of course you have Ed, I just don't always agree.

all ways wired

the day i worry about 'looking' like a tool in text on a computer is also the day i fly to the moon......yawn.

now surely my question of what has the original post got to do with BRITISH EXPATS LIVING IN AFRICA is a valid one. i believe it is rational, reasoned and adds to the debate.

please bear in mind i still 'aint got a response to this question....just some petty abuse.

that, in my eyes, says a whole lot more than my subsequent abuse

Donna Allan

all way wired - we're just a bunch of British Expats who HAVE lived in Africa and are saddened (and sickened) by the way it's going down hill. 547 people have viewed this thread so far either to have a look at what Pablo had posted regarding the Hout Bay killing or maybe now just to follow what comments you've made since We all enjoy a good bit of banter every now and again and you're playing right into their hands

Daxk

Wired just made a bunch of stupid assumptions, maybe we should do the same.

Pablo

Another wrecked life.

Father hacked, shot dead
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...4036753C569731

What Zuma has done for rape and corruption, Malema is doing for violent brutal murder.

ededed

100 yards from a police station too.

ededed

Ok then, I'll bite....Pablo feels the need to communicate the murders that happen in SA. That's his right - I believe he does it to highlight the frequent murders that happen as a warning to others who are considering coming here.

I personally don't agree with this tactic, nor do I accept the likelihood of my impending death at the hands of one of these scumbags, but I will defend his right to communicate in this way. We live in a democracy where freedom of speech and expression is allowed and I think the stories are pretty hard to defend. I personally don't think posting links about murders is particularly helpful but if others feel it is, then that's up to them. So, let's drop the mock-indignation and talk about the issue - and help British Expats make decisions about whether they should be expats here.

I vote yes, as will most Brits who live here (certainly the 15 or so who have moved here this year at my company), but I suggest we'll be in the minority - especially when votes are tallied from those who have left.....

Daxk

Ed,I'm not getting into that round robin with you,again,
How many of those 15 will remain if they or their families experienced violent crime?
As that seems to be the dividing factor between those who defend staying and those who defend leaving.

there are also a very few of my friends who have experienced violent crime and chosen not to leave although they were qualified to do so.
One was raped in front of her daughters, the other was shot in his driveway not a million mles from you, Ed, they haven't left, but their lives are no longer the bright positive type,
but for whatever reason, I doubt anyone who is just there for the work experience and the sunshine is going to hang around if anything like that gets even close.
So,its a lottery, they just haven't yet had to make that decision, and may never.
but its one helluva price tag to pay.

ededed

Daxk, I think we are saying exactly the same thing here.... I agree with you, especially with the point about leaving if or when something happens...there are times when me and Mrs E discuss it - why wait until something happens? Because life is brilliant for us.

Right now, I feel things are ok. When it happens to my friend? My neighbour? My wife / kids? Who knows. I work for a multi-national blue chip company, I have transferrable skils and could realistically work in any country in the world - but where would I go that would give me this quality of life? (it's not a rhetorical question - answers please)...

The UK? No chance.
Australia? Full of Australians and whenwes
NZ? Nope, not quite ready for retirement
The USA? Nope, don't want my kids with "that" accent
Europe? Can't speakie ze lingo
Middle East?
Falkland Islands?

Pablo

It's kind of you to try to explain what I feel. You're partly right, but only partly. Yes, if my own conversations with people, and my own perusal of the media, are anything to go by, there is a persistent ignorance about the level of violent crime in SA, coupled with a continuing attempt to push the Rainbow Nation fantasy -- both in the West, and in SA.

But in the end, the naive will find out soon enough if they go to SA, and there's a limit to how much you can care about the violent death of someone you don't know.

So that it part of it. But it's also a case that the first stage of dealing with a problem is to acknowledge what's going on. And the SA habit, for far too long, has been to deal with the problem by a) ignoring it, b) censoring it, and c) shouting down and vilifying those who dare to speak out.

If you're white and speak out, you're called racist. If you're black, you're called an Uncle Tom.

This censorship creates the *illusion* that all is well, and the illusion of a cosy consensus. But meanwhile the maggots are at work, and the rot continues out of sight. Then suddenly the whole edifice collapses.

In other words, silencing/censoring criticism will wreck South Africa. And the more the censorship happens, the more it will need to happen. Until, as with so many other places, you just end up with tyranny and a terrorized, cowed population. And collapse.

Other than that, I have friends in SA that I care about. In the case of Hout Bay, I know it well, and a friend of mine was there at Easter. In the case of the smallholding case I mentioned, I have friends who live on similar properties, and I once considered buying a smallholding myself (and didn't, because even then the killings were making that kind of semi-rural life impossible). So part of my reaction is personal, human, emotional, and grief-stricken.

Corruption, breakdown, violence, tyranny, and the resurgence of racial supremacy, are what I have always spoken out against, and I don't intend to stop now just because some foul-mouthed Malema bully-boy tries to scream me down.