Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
Feb 7th 2013, 10:10 am
#91
Bored liberal
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Over there ----->
Posts: 13,713
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
I actually don't know what stolen lands you are on about, Muslims have been living in their lands for donkey's years, more in fact, than the Anglo-Saxons in England, or the Aussies in Australia, and so on. I also am not really sure what you expect the Muslims (or any other human beings) to do if some one snatch their land. The British defended their own country and fought off German invasion, why would you then deny the Muslims the same right!!
Are you a comedy poster?
Feb 8th 2013, 12:07 am
#93
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 691
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
Muslims spread from Arabia and conquered a vast Empire. The first non-Arab lands they took were places like Syria, Iraq, Judea etc - around the early 600s. By this time Saxons were in England for 150 years at least so your claim that Muslims have been living in their lands for longer than Saxons have been in England is unfounded. A little more reading might suit you well.
The Saxons also only originally invaded with less than 2% of the population of the local people, yet they completely transformed the culture, language and identity of the land - just like Muslims did to their neighbours and eventually the Persians, Bactrians, many Indians (when they were not killing the estimated 80million Hindus during the few centuries they invaded and ruled). If you look this up online you'll also see most white Britons share the same DNA as people who lived there in the stone ages.
Regarding Australia etc - these lands were stolen and colonised, just like most of the middle east was from non-Arab and non-Muslim peoples over the 1400 years. If one day the natives took back a chunk of their land because they were tired of living as second class citizens in their ancestral homelands (like the Copts in Egypt - who have less rights than Native Australians or Americans today) and won that land in open warfare, legal purchases and endorsement from the UN would you support colonial Australian attempts to destroy their state and wipe them out? Would you support a land share deal that gives both groups something or would you support the removal of the colonising groups completely? It's not so black and white is it?
In the case of Britain it's clearer because most white Britons share the same DNA as people who lived their in the stone ages. No invader has had a signifcant impact on the gene pool (until recent legal and illegal immigration)http://news.nationalgeographic.co.uk...ishgene_2.html and few Englishmen can even tell you the name of the tribes before the Saxons and Romans. (I know the Iceni were in my area...I'll be damned if I know their language, culture or anything more than they drank ale and liked fighting - so no change there).
N.
The Saxons also only originally invaded with less than 2% of the population of the local people, yet they completely transformed the culture, language and identity of the land - just like Muslims did to their neighbours and eventually the Persians, Bactrians, many Indians (when they were not killing the estimated 80million Hindus during the few centuries they invaded and ruled). If you look this up online you'll also see most white Britons share the same DNA as people who lived there in the stone ages.
Regarding Australia etc - these lands were stolen and colonised, just like most of the middle east was from non-Arab and non-Muslim peoples over the 1400 years. If one day the natives took back a chunk of their land because they were tired of living as second class citizens in their ancestral homelands (like the Copts in Egypt - who have less rights than Native Australians or Americans today) and won that land in open warfare, legal purchases and endorsement from the UN would you support colonial Australian attempts to destroy their state and wipe them out? Would you support a land share deal that gives both groups something or would you support the removal of the colonising groups completely? It's not so black and white is it?
In the case of Britain it's clearer because most white Britons share the same DNA as people who lived their in the stone ages. No invader has had a signifcant impact on the gene pool (until recent legal and illegal immigration)http://news.nationalgeographic.co.uk...ishgene_2.html and few Englishmen can even tell you the name of the tribes before the Saxons and Romans. (I know the Iceni were in my area...I'll be damned if I know their language, culture or anything more than they drank ale and liked fighting - so no change there).
N.
Could you provide some examples of those alleged discriminations against the Copts in Egypt? It just does not really make sense, I've heard of many filthy rich Coptic Egyptian businessmen, take a look at this Coptic politician whose grandfather was once the prime minister of Egypt. I wonder if there are as many filthy rich Aubergines !!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boutros_Boutros-Ghali
The answer to your question about the example of Australia that you quoted, and to any other problem of land dispute any where in the world is simple, just apply the successful South African solution, "Let the majority decide"
During the Muslim expansion that you referred to, the Arabs came out of Arabia in groups of only, they went east to Persia and India, and west to the Middle East. The Persians and many other Indians adopted the Muslim faith but rejected the Arabic culture. The whole of the Middle East, However, adopted both the religion and the culture.
Again I really like to know where you get those big inflated numbers from,... 80 millions Hindus died at the hand of Muslims,.... one million blond and blue-eyed slaves owned by the Arabs, and what have you, ... which now, makes me eager to ask you this question, what is your favorite cocktail?
Feb 10th 2013, 5:15 am
#94
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,373
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
Could you provide some examples of those alleged discriminations against the Copts in Egypt? It just does not really make sense, I've heard of many filthy rich Coptic Egyptian businessmen, take a look at this Coptic politician whose grandfather was once the prime minister of Egypt. I wonder if there are as many filthy rich Aubergines
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/01/2...serious-abuses
Majority rule isn't always good - we can see that from the so called Arab Spring.During the Muslim expansion that you referred to, the Arabs came out of Arabia in groups of only, they went east to Persia and India, and west to the Middle East. The Persians and many other Indians adopted the Muslim faith but rejected the Arabic culture. The whole of the Middle East, However, adopted both the religion and the culture.
Again I really like to know where you get those big inflated numbers from,... 80 millions Hindus died at the hand of Muslims,.... one million blond and blue-eyed slaves owned by the Arabs, and what have you, ... which now, makes me eager to ask you this question, what is your favorite cocktail?
Europe = (not all Europeans are blue eyed and blonde by the way) - The Barbary Pirates alone took an estimated 1.2 million slaves http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british...s_01.shtml#two. Raids for slaves and loot by this proxy of the Ottomans were so bad that for a time many coastal towns in Europe were either fortified or deserted. This was centuries before any European power colonised North Africa - indeed it can be argued that colonisation was in response to this aggression. Look up the Barbary wars if you're actually interested in more than just disagreeing with me because you're being presented with information that runs counter to what you have been taught.
N.
PS: My point here really is to illustrate that Muslims have been as imperial, if not more so than Europeans or any other group, and that the conflict between these Empires was not started by the West. They are no better or worse looking in the context of their times, indeed some rulers were quite enlightened for their time.
Feb 10th 2013, 5:38 am
#95
Bored liberal
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Over there ----->
Posts: 13,713
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
I think I was right earlier. redShark is a comedy poster.
His lack of historical knowledge is astonishing, but I rather like the gag about filthy rich aubergines. A touch of Eddie Izzard...
His lack of historical knowledge is astonishing, but I rather like the gag about filthy rich aubergines. A touch of Eddie Izzard...
Feb 10th 2013, 5:44 am
#96
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,373
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
N.
Feb 11th 2013, 9:23 pm
#99
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 691
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
You said Muslims and now you're saying Arabs. You're shifting the goal posts. I am quite aware of pre-Islamic Arabian history - which is very interesting. Arabs living outside of Arabia (as merchants, traders etc) is not the same as most of the Arabian tribes uniting under the banner of a religion and going on to forge a massive empire (mostly because Persia and Byzantium were weak from a hundred years of total war) which assimilated many non-Arab peoples into the mix over the following five hundred years.
I think you mean rich aborigines...Aubergines are a vegetable. That aside I don't doubt that some Copts do very well, certainly nothing is black and white and we can be sure it isn't universal, But the fact is they are the original Egyptians living as a generally oppressed minority in their own land. A google search will reveal a lot about Coptic persecution recently and in the past:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/01/2...serious-abuses
The majority of Australians today are white - I doubt they would decide to give up their land any more than Arab Muslims would agree to let the Copts run everything. Or that Turks would agree to let Kurds, Greeks and Armenians run everything Majority rule isn't always good - we can see that from the so called Arab Spring.
One man's groups are another's armies. Arabian historians at the time were very good at documenting their own expansion. Islam was spread by the sword for at least three centuries by Arabs, later the Turks became the driving force of jihad against the Dar al Harb). Many places like Egypt remained majority Christian until around the 1200s though.
India = Historian K.S. Lal writes on the subject. His book Growth of Muslim Population in Medieval India states between 1000 CE and 1500 CE, the population of Hindus decreased by 80 million (not 90, sorry). You can also read Dr. Andrew Bostom's book "The Legacy of Jihad" - pages 433 to 554 cover the Invasion of India by Muslim Empires in some detail.
Europe = (not all Europeans are blue eyed and blonde by the way) - The Barbary Pirates alone took an estimated 1.2 million slaves http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british...s_01.shtml#two. Raids for slaves and loot by this proxy of the Ottomans were so bad that for a time many coastal towns in Europe were either fortified or deserted. This was centuries before any European power colonised North Africa - indeed it can be argued that colonisation was in response to this aggression. Look up the Barbary wars if you're actually interested in more than just disagreeing with me because you're being presented with information that runs counter to what you have been taught.
N.
PS: My point here really is to illustrate that Muslims have been as imperial, if not more so than Europeans or any other group, and that the conflict between these Empires was not started by the West. They are no better or worse looking in the context of their times, indeed some rulers were quite enlightened for their time.
I think you mean rich aborigines...Aubergines are a vegetable. That aside I don't doubt that some Copts do very well, certainly nothing is black and white and we can be sure it isn't universal, But the fact is they are the original Egyptians living as a generally oppressed minority in their own land. A google search will reveal a lot about Coptic persecution recently and in the past:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/01/2...serious-abuses
The majority of Australians today are white - I doubt they would decide to give up their land any more than Arab Muslims would agree to let the Copts run everything. Or that Turks would agree to let Kurds, Greeks and Armenians run everything
Majority rule isn't always good - we can see that from the so called Arab Spring.One man's groups are another's armies. Arabian historians at the time were very good at documenting their own expansion. Islam was spread by the sword for at least three centuries by Arabs, later the Turks became the driving force of jihad against the Dar al Harb). Many places like Egypt remained majority Christian until around the 1200s though.
India = Historian K.S. Lal writes on the subject. His book Growth of Muslim Population in Medieval India states between 1000 CE and 1500 CE, the population of Hindus decreased by 80 million (not 90, sorry). You can also read Dr. Andrew Bostom's book "The Legacy of Jihad" - pages 433 to 554 cover the Invasion of India by Muslim Empires in some detail.
Europe = (not all Europeans are blue eyed and blonde by the way) - The Barbary Pirates alone took an estimated 1.2 million slaves http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british...s_01.shtml#two. Raids for slaves and loot by this proxy of the Ottomans were so bad that for a time many coastal towns in Europe were either fortified or deserted. This was centuries before any European power colonised North Africa - indeed it can be argued that colonisation was in response to this aggression. Look up the Barbary wars if you're actually interested in more than just disagreeing with me because you're being presented with information that runs counter to what you have been taught.
N.
PS: My point here really is to illustrate that Muslims have been as imperial, if not more so than Europeans or any other group, and that the conflict between these Empires was not started by the West. They are no better or worse looking in the context of their times, indeed some rulers were quite enlightened for their time.
The Jews suffered horrible treatments at the hand of Nazi Germany, therefore it would had been quite logical after the war was over, that part of Bavaria, for example, be carved up and be given to the Jews to form a country as a pay back compensation. But because of some guidance in the Bible, it was rather the Palestinians who were chosen instead to pick up the bill
-Oh, by the way, the 80 million missing Hindus could be traced in the 100 million Muslims population of India
- May I also suggest that you add to your list of favorite authors the like of Sir Richard Francis Burton, a profound orientalist and explorer who wrote extensively about the history of Islam, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton
Or indeed like of the famous Irish philosopher George Bernard Shaw who wrote quite a lot about Islam and the East, his famous book "The Genuine Islam" is a real eye-opener.
This may help water down some of your radical views on Arabs and Islam
Feb 11th 2013, 10:02 pm
#100
Nothing doin' here
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,508
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
When I embarked on writing a reply to the above post to address your arguments I realized, half way through that I have just written 2 A4 pages. So I called it off and discarded it all because it was just getting silly. The main argument was that Biblical teachings are not particularly some thing of the past and the example I quoted was the state of Israeli.
The Jews suffered horrible treatments at the hand of Nazi Germany, therefore it would had been quite logical after the war was over, that part of Bavaria, for example, be carved up and be given to the Jews to form a country as a pay back compensation. But because of some guidance in the Bible, it was rather the Palestinians who were chosen instead to pick up the bill
-Oh, by the way, the 80 million missing Hindus could be traced in the 100 million Muslims population of India
- May I also suggest that you add to your list of favorite authors the like of Sir Richard Francis Burton, a profound orientalist and explorer who wrote extensively about the history of Islam, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton
Or indeed like of the famous Irish philosopher George Bernard Shaw who wrote quite a lot about Islam and the East, his famous book "The Genuine Islam" is a real eye-opener.
This may help water down some of your radical views on Arabs and Islam
The Jews suffered horrible treatments at the hand of Nazi Germany, therefore it would had been quite logical after the war was over, that part of Bavaria, for example, be carved up and be given to the Jews to form a country as a pay back compensation. But because of some guidance in the Bible, it was rather the Palestinians who were chosen instead to pick up the bill
-Oh, by the way, the 80 million missing Hindus could be traced in the 100 million Muslims population of India
- May I also suggest that you add to your list of favorite authors the like of Sir Richard Francis Burton, a profound orientalist and explorer who wrote extensively about the history of Islam, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton
Or indeed like of the famous Irish philosopher George Bernard Shaw who wrote quite a lot about Islam and the East, his famous book "The Genuine Islam" is a real eye-opener.
This may help water down some of your radical views on Arabs and Islam
It really makes no sense.
Feb 12th 2013, 2:59 am
#101
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,107
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
When I embarked on writing a reply to the above post to address your arguments I realized, half way through that I have just written 2 A4 pages. So I called it off and discarded it all because it was just getting silly. The main argument was that Biblical teachings are not particularly some thing of the past and the example I quoted was the state of Israeli.
The Jews suffered horrible treatments at the hand of Nazi Germany, therefore it would had been quite logical after the war was over, that part of Bavaria, for example, be carved up and be given to the Jews to form a country as a pay back compensation. But because of some guidance in the Bible, it was rather the Palestinians who were chosen instead to pick up the bill
-Oh, by the way, the 80 million missing Hindus could be traced in the 100 million Muslims population of India
- May I also suggest that you add to your list of favorite authors the like of Sir Richard Francis Burton, a profound orientalist and explorer who wrote extensively about the history of Islam, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton
Or indeed like of the famous Irish philosopher George Bernard Shaw who wrote quite a lot about Islam and the East, his famous book "The Genuine Islam" is a real eye-opener.
This may help water down some of your radical views on Arabs and Islam
The Jews suffered horrible treatments at the hand of Nazi Germany, therefore it would had been quite logical after the war was over, that part of Bavaria, for example, be carved up and be given to the Jews to form a country as a pay back compensation. But because of some guidance in the Bible, it was rather the Palestinians who were chosen instead to pick up the bill
-Oh, by the way, the 80 million missing Hindus could be traced in the 100 million Muslims population of India
- May I also suggest that you add to your list of favorite authors the like of Sir Richard Francis Burton, a profound orientalist and explorer who wrote extensively about the history of Islam, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton
Or indeed like of the famous Irish philosopher George Bernard Shaw who wrote quite a lot about Islam and the East, his famous book "The Genuine Islam" is a real eye-opener.
This may help water down some of your radical views on Arabs and Islam
A question that I think is worth asking, if for no reason other than to get ideologues foaming at the mouth, is what is the difference between the basis for the founding of Israel and of Pakistan? Other than the fact that a lot fewer people were killed or displaced in the founding of Israel....
Feb 12th 2013, 4:07 am
#102
**** it we'll do it live
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 7,892
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
The Times are reporting that the royal family have blocked the release of said preacher. I would suspect they are shocked by how the story has traveled the globe and received universal condemnation.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/w...cle3685080.ece
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/w...cle3685080.ece
Feb 12th 2013, 8:49 am
#103
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,373
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
When I embarked on writing a reply to the above post to address your arguments I realized, half way through that I have just written 2 A4 pages. So I called it off and discarded it all because it was just getting silly. The main argument was that Biblical teachings are not particularly some thing of the past and the example I quoted was the state of Israeli.
The Jews suffered horrible treatments at the hand of Nazi Germany, therefore it would had been quite logical after the war was over, that part of Bavaria, for example, be carved up and be given to the Jews to form a country as a pay back compensation. But because of some guidance in the Bible, it was rather the Palestinians who were chosen instead to pick up the bill
-Oh, by the way, the 80 million missing Hindus could be traced in the 100 million Muslims population of India
- May I also suggest that you add to your list of favorite authors the like of Sir Richard Francis Burton, a profound orientalist and explorer who wrote extensively about the history of Islam, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton
Or indeed like of the famous Irish philosopher George Bernard Shaw who wrote quite a lot about Islam and the East, his famous book "The Genuine Islam" is a real eye-opener.
This may help water down some of your radical views on Arabs and Islam
The Jews suffered horrible treatments at the hand of Nazi Germany, therefore it would had been quite logical after the war was over, that part of Bavaria, for example, be carved up and be given to the Jews to form a country as a pay back compensation. But because of some guidance in the Bible, it was rather the Palestinians who were chosen instead to pick up the bill
-Oh, by the way, the 80 million missing Hindus could be traced in the 100 million Muslims population of India
- May I also suggest that you add to your list of favorite authors the like of Sir Richard Francis Burton, a profound orientalist and explorer who wrote extensively about the history of Islam, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton
Or indeed like of the famous Irish philosopher George Bernard Shaw who wrote quite a lot about Islam and the East, his famous book "The Genuine Islam" is a real eye-opener.
This may help water down some of your radical views on Arabs and Islam
The dead Hindus can be traced to being murdered my Islamic invaders - why gloss over that glaring fact? Are you so keen to deny simple truths you'll lie about history and then go on to accuse me of having 'radical' views when most of the information I get is from Islamic sources? The fact is, Muslim Empires were just as bad as any other, displacing and conquering millions, taking slaves long before we did in post-Roman Europe.
With all due respect you're clearly out of your depth if you have to resort to labelling me a radical. I won't post anything I can't back up and if I am wrong I'll eat my words happily.
N.
Feb 13th 2013, 8:27 am
#104
"Insert witty title here"
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: dxb
Posts: 2,251
Re: Saudi preacher gets light sentence for killing daughter
why (the ****) cant we all just get along? 
as robin williams once said, the Jamaicans should invent the atomic bong and make everything so much simpler
as robin williams once said, the Jamaicans should invent the atomic bong and make everything so much simpler