Meow

Patsy didn't say companies paid the rent, just that it is easier for employees. I assumed she meant that they can actually get loans as opposed the the self-employed who can't.

Don't let it stop you from remaining eternally bitter though...

Eeyore

Unless you work in the construction industry like Scamp, of course That's a real turnaround from the boom years, when working in construction meant that the banks were falling over each other to lend you money as soon as you stepped off the plane.

Yeah yeah, bitter, sour grapes, blah blah blah. Heard it all before my love, particularly back when I was pointing out how unsustainable the property boom was and lots of people were telling me that I was wrong. Including, I seem to recall, you - the professional financial adviser

If you think about it for more than five seconds, it would be entirely to Dubai's benefit to modernise the rent system with proper legal reform allowing monthly payment for all. Making it easier for people to pay rent without relying on companies (fewer and fewer of which are willing to pony up the lump sums because it kills their cashflow) or bank loans (which are now much harder to get for many people) would only be a positive thing for both tenants *and* landlords.

But sadly, it would be a modern and progressive thing to do, and despite its pretensions Dubai doesn't really do modern and progressive where it really counts.

scrubbedexpat141

This would make lots of sense. I don't mind even in 3 cheques, that's reasonable.

Eeyore

I'd say it's not. Everybody gets paid monthly, therefore they should pay rent monthly. Imagine if mortgages had to be paid annually in advance (or even in 3 cheques), how many property owners would consider that to be reasonable?

I can understand that the annual cheque system made some sort of sense back when Dubai was a much cheaper place to live, you could get a very nice villa in Jumeira for 60k a year, and all companies paid their employees' rent. But now it's an albatross and has no place in a modern, forward-looking economy.

Monthly payments would also go a long way to improving the quality of landlords here, because they would have to think more about providing a service to their tenants and less about using their annual cheques to fund new cars or whatever.

Millhouse

Ah, you are right... sort of. Now think about it for 15 seconds. The place is transient and market economics allow 1-2 cheques. If I was a landlord, I'd much rather take a one year cheque than 12 monthlys if only to reduce the risk on a void - You'd take that too. In fact, if the market in London or anywhere else could get away with 1-2 cheques they would take it too. They can't as the market dynamics are different (people are not paid as much, and the supply balance is different)

As for companies and banks not fronting the rents anymore - that is good news (for renters), this will force the market to accept more cheques. Look how quickly it responded in 2009 with rents falling 50% and landlords taking 12 cheques. I'd say that the market worked very efficiently on that occasion.

The problem is that for the much of the market (where we are looking to rent) people here are vastly overpaid and the prevalence of featherbed packages further distort the market. This allows the majority of people to be able to afford paying rents in one or two installments.

What you are actually suggesting is that Dubai further regulates the rental market... something that most developed economies I am aware of do not.

scrubbedexpat141

The only reason 1 cheque is better in a transient location is greed. If I **** off in month 3, it's tough tits for me he can rent it out again making double bubble for 9 months.

Eeyore

Not *that* transient. How many people do you know come here and spend less than a year? But let's say there was a big churn of people coming here for less than a year - so what? If there are that many new people coming in on a regular basis, any landlord with a half-decent property should be able to re-rent it in short order without problems. In fact, don't many landlords often use "I can easily find a new tenant" as a rejoinder when challenged about rent increases? They can't have it both ways.

And companies and banks absolutely would not lend lump sums to pay rent, of course. After all, a great many expats here could not afford to pay their rent in the required lump sums without having the money fronted to them.

The featherbed packages are much, much rarer than they were. Back in 2008, most of the people we knew had at least their rent paid, and quite a few got school fees too. Nowadays, by far the majority of people we know don't get either, but landlords seem to be of the impression that all expats just get handed rent money by their companies.

Markets are not unstoppable forces of nature. Markets are the entirely artificial creations of human beings, and they can and do get twisted and skewed. When that happens, it's up to us to intervene and fix them. If the government had intervened in the real estate market prior to 2008, it would not have become so overheated and the collapse would not have been so enormous.

Unfortunately, when people say "You can't interfere with the market", it's usually because they are benefitting from the way it's been skewed and so what they really mean is "You can't interfere with my ability to make as much money as possible at the expense of others".

Millhouse

And when has capitalisim been driven by anything other than greed? If you **** off after three months the landlord is stuck with a void - he wants to mitigate the risk on this and is simply passing it on to you. I don't see wanting to do this as greedy ... it's not like he has a robust legal framework that supports him enforcing you saying in the unit. In fact, he has a shitty legal framework that prevents him increasing the rents even if market conditions change.

Not paying back the rent outstanding is a totally different issue. That is theft.


The biggest thing I hate in this market is the tenant paying the agents fees.

Millhouse

Maybe not ... but just as in the Uk you typically sign a 12 year lease with a 6 month break clause to protect the landlord, they are doing the same...but with cheques rather than an enforceable legal framework that helps them.

I'm sorry you don't get your rent or school fees paid. If it's any consolidation, nor do I. Anyway, as the saying goes... if you can't get it to work, bugger off... they won't miss us.

Millhouse

[QUOTE=Eeyore;10379746 If the government had intervened in the real estate market prior to 2008, it would not have become so overheated and the collapse would not have been so enormous.
[/QUOTE]

Just like, say, the Irish, the Greeks, the Eastern Europeans etc. did with their market. They have all seen similar drops in capital values.

The problem here is that rents here are set by so many external factors... like the political situation in Afghanistan/ Pakistan/ Syria/ Lebanon/ Egypt etc

Eeyore

Signing an X-year lease in the UK is hardly the same as having to front up a year's worth of rent in advance.

No need to feel sorry, we're doing fine. But that doesn't stop me feeling repelled by the inherent greed and unfairness in the system.

That's something else that disgusts me, the "if you don't like it, leave" attitude. As the saying goes, power is never voluntarily given by the oppressor, it must be taken by the oppressed. That might seem like an overstatement of the case in respect of the Dubai rental market, but the underlying principle is sound - if there is to be positive change, people need to make a stand rather than just shrug.

Eeyore

How, exactly? The Irish, for example, saw the same situation as Dubai did - insane property price inflation driven by rampant speculation which was in turn driven by light-touch (or effectively nonexistent) regulation of both the real estate and financial systems. Lots of Irish property millionaires saw their wealth vanish almost overnight, just as in Dubai. And lots of ordinary people who'd overstretched to buy a house to live in found themselves trapped in negative equity...

scrubbedexpat141

Of course, greed is good.

Landlord wouldn't struggle to back fill my place, it's incredible.

Agent fees are absurd. 600 quid nearly to show myself round an apartment.

Meow

You recall incorectly. I was never a promotor of buying property in Dubai.

auzdafluff

Which is why in the UK the landlord pays them. The cost isn't about showing the tenant the place; it's about finding a tenant for the landlord.

Another classic example of people ****ing around.

Scamp; if you're looking at moving from BB (especially now you're in JLT) consider TECOM or The Greens.