Norway shootings thread
Jul 24th 2011, 10:42 am
#16
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Re: Norway shootings thread
Don't know what I'd want if it had been my little brother / sister etc.
Jul 24th 2011, 11:00 am
#17
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Re: Norway shootings thread
Well it turns out the sick puppy is a little more calculating than the average degenerate psychopath. He has even written a 1500+ page manifest on how to overthrow the 'cultural marxists'. In it he describes in detail what makes people valid targets and classifies them into categories of traitors and together with appropriate punishments and so on. He also goes into detail of how to plan a 'mission'. It is bone chilling stuff and includes a diary of his actions over the last 6 months or so...Apparently he has planning this for 9 years!!!
Google '2083 A European Declaration of Independence'
He posted the manifest just hours before the bomb went off. By the way from what I have read it looks like his primary mission was the bomb and the secondary (or bonus mission as he calls it) was the shooting of the island. He describes in the manifest how to select locations and everything...
Norway has 21 years as maximum prison sentence, but there is room for death penalty to be used in 'times of war' (very loosely defined in the law). Don't be surprised if this guy is taken out. Permanently. Not least because because in the manifest he describes the capture (which I always found strange - why would he just surrender) as the next step in the plan and calls it the 'propaganda phase'......
Google '2083 A European Declaration of Independence'
He posted the manifest just hours before the bomb went off. By the way from what I have read it looks like his primary mission was the bomb and the secondary (or bonus mission as he calls it) was the shooting of the island. He describes in the manifest how to select locations and everything...
Norway has 21 years as maximum prison sentence, but there is room for death penalty to be used in 'times of war' (very loosely defined in the law). Don't be surprised if this guy is taken out. Permanently. Not least because because in the manifest he describes the capture (which I always found strange - why would he just surrender) as the next step in the plan and calls it the 'propaganda phase'......
Jul 24th 2011, 11:23 am
#18
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Re: Norway shootings thread
We can look for all sorts of explanations for his actions and behaviour, but it defies rationalisation. Many people have what would most of us would consider extreme beleiefs, but they don't go on killing sprees. Sometimes, sadly, there are people who do awful things. Always have been and I suspect always will be.
Jul 24th 2011, 3:01 pm
#19
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Re: Norway shootings thread
Well it turns out the sick puppy is a little more calculating than the average degenerate psychopath. He has even written a 1500+ page manifest on how to overthrow the 'cultural marxists'. In it he describes in detail what makes people valid targets and classifies them into categories of traitors and together with appropriate punishments and so on. He also goes into detail of how to plan a 'mission'. It is bone chilling stuff and includes a diary of his actions over the last 6 months or so...Apparently he has planning this for 9 years!!!
Google '2083 A European Declaration of Independence'
He posted the manifest just hours before the bomb went off. By the way from what I have read it looks like his primary mission was the bomb and the secondary (or bonus mission as he calls it) was the shooting of the island. He describes in the manifest how to select locations and everything...
Norway has 21 years as maximum prison sentence, but there is room for death penalty to be used in 'times of war' (very loosely defined in the law). Don't be surprised if this guy is taken out. Permanently. Not least because because in the manifest he describes the capture (which I always found strange - why would he just surrender) as the next step in the plan and calls it the 'propaganda phase'......
Google '2083 A European Declaration of Independence'
He posted the manifest just hours before the bomb went off. By the way from what I have read it looks like his primary mission was the bomb and the secondary (or bonus mission as he calls it) was the shooting of the island. He describes in the manifest how to select locations and everything...
Norway has 21 years as maximum prison sentence, but there is room for death penalty to be used in 'times of war' (very loosely defined in the law). Don't be surprised if this guy is taken out. Permanently. Not least because because in the manifest he describes the capture (which I always found strange - why would he just surrender) as the next step in the plan and calls it the 'propaganda phase'......
This fellow has obviously found a vent through which to let off his deranged steam. I suspect if he were born in the UAE he'd using political Islamism as his excuse. Whatever the case, we'll hear his case tomorrow according to the media.
I hope Norway enforces the death penalty in this instance. It won't bring anyone back but it guarantees no one will have to worry about him escaping jail or living off the taxpayer for the next 30 years.
N.
Jul 24th 2011, 3:04 pm
#20
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Re: Norway shootings thread
Well it turns out the sick puppy is a little more calculating than the average degenerate psychopath. He has even written a 1500+ page manifest on how to overthrow the 'cultural marxists'. In it he describes in detail what makes people valid targets and classifies them into categories of traitors and together with appropriate punishments and so on. He also goes into detail of how to plan a 'mission'. It is bone chilling stuff and includes a diary of his actions over the last 6 months or so...Apparently he has planning this for 9 years!!!
Google '2083 A European Declaration of Independence'
He posted the manifest just hours before the bomb went off. By the way from what I have read it looks like his primary mission was the bomb and the secondary (or bonus mission as he calls it) was the shooting of the island. He describes in the manifest how to select locations and everything...
Norway has 21 years as maximum prison sentence, but there is room for death penalty to be used in 'times of war' (very loosely defined in the law). Don't be surprised if this guy is taken out. Permanently. Not least because because in the manifest he describes the capture (which I always found strange - why would he just surrender) as the next step in the plan and calls it the 'propaganda phase'......
Google '2083 A European Declaration of Independence'
He posted the manifest just hours before the bomb went off. By the way from what I have read it looks like his primary mission was the bomb and the secondary (or bonus mission as he calls it) was the shooting of the island. He describes in the manifest how to select locations and everything...
Norway has 21 years as maximum prison sentence, but there is room for death penalty to be used in 'times of war' (very loosely defined in the law). Don't be surprised if this guy is taken out. Permanently. Not least because because in the manifest he describes the capture (which I always found strange - why would he just surrender) as the next step in the plan and calls it the 'propaganda phase'......
As for what to do with him, I am finding it difficult to say. With the maximum sentence of 21 years, he would b out by the time he was 53..But I'd assume there would be room in the law to have him locked up. They are saying he is not mentally ill, but to commit such a crime you must be completely ****ed in the head.
Jul 24th 2011, 3:26 pm
#21
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Re: Norway shootings thread
Indeed. I've heard a lot of people call for a police state to deal with this but it’s unlikely to hinder people who want to perpetuate crimes like this anyway. In my view such measures may be counterproductive in the long run increasing paranoia amongst those who hold ideas outside the normal political spectrum.
Benjamin Franklin captured it much more neatly “They that give up liberty to purchase a little temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security”. He was right, a free society must always be in some inherent danger or by definition it’s not free.
Now compared Norway to society’s that purport to offer more security and, more often than not, Norway is actually a much safer and more prosporus society. So I hope they continue on as they have done and maybe we should take a leaf from their book as well?
Benjamin Franklin captured it much more neatly “They that give up liberty to purchase a little temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security”. He was right, a free society must always be in some inherent danger or by definition it’s not free.
Now compared Norway to society’s that purport to offer more security and, more often than not, Norway is actually a much safer and more prosporus society. So I hope they continue on as they have done and maybe we should take a leaf from their book as well?
Jul 24th 2011, 4:17 pm
#22
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Re: Norway shootings thread
Please - PLEASE - whatever he has done, however horrific....... not the death penalty, especially in a nation known for its peaceful approach to just about everything.
If I murder someone, or even 90 people, that's bad. But if the government then kills me, that's OK?? I don't follow the logic.
The death penalty isn't justice - it's revenge, which has no place in the legal system of a civilised country.
Put it another way: there is no evidence anywhere that the death penalty acts as a deterrent. If Norway had a system of capital punishment, would it have prevented this atrocity? Almost certainly not............
If I murder someone, or even 90 people, that's bad. But if the government then kills me, that's OK?? I don't follow the logic.
The death penalty isn't justice - it's revenge, which has no place in the legal system of a civilised country.
Put it another way: there is no evidence anywhere that the death penalty acts as a deterrent. If Norway had a system of capital punishment, would it have prevented this atrocity? Almost certainly not............
Jul 24th 2011, 5:17 pm
#23
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Re: Norway shootings thread
We’re waiting for his explanation in court on Monday but if the media speculation is to be believed the perpetrator, Breivik is a man who was right-wing and anti-Sharia. He was not a neo-Nazi, but pro-Israel/Jewish, and he also apparently wasn’t particularly racist as he opposed the BNP because they are racist. He was also a Christian but not a fanatic (he was pro-gay rights).
This is what the media has dug up on Breivik so far, based apparently on his internet posts in 2010. Of course we’ll hear from his own lips why he did what he did tomorrow but he certainly doesn’t fit the bill of a mass murderer in waiting.
So apparently he was a lot like me…liberal right, anti-racist, pro-gay and pro-Israel. So I’m asking myself how does someone like that become a terrorist who kills his own people??? Where is the motive for this? According to his views he should be out moaning about immigrants and grumbling about Sharia law, not committing cold blooded murder against teens.
If this is an attack on the left it’s a very strange one. Why did he sadistically target youths who have nothing to do with policy? Even Norway’s centre-left government is quite extreme and support the war in Libya and Afghanistan – so why would he attack them?
I am puzzled, dismayed and utterly shocked. I hope he turns out to be a lone wolf Tim McVey type nut job who acted alone and isn’t part of a wider network of cold blooded murderers who will strike again and again – we have enough of those in the world already.
All I can think of right now is how terrible this day is for the parents who are burying their children.
N.
This is what the media has dug up on Breivik so far, based apparently on his internet posts in 2010. Of course we’ll hear from his own lips why he did what he did tomorrow but he certainly doesn’t fit the bill of a mass murderer in waiting.
So apparently he was a lot like me…liberal right, anti-racist, pro-gay and pro-Israel. So I’m asking myself how does someone like that become a terrorist who kills his own people??? Where is the motive for this? According to his views he should be out moaning about immigrants and grumbling about Sharia law, not committing cold blooded murder against teens.
If this is an attack on the left it’s a very strange one. Why did he sadistically target youths who have nothing to do with policy? Even Norway’s centre-left government is quite extreme and support the war in Libya and Afghanistan – so why would he attack them?
I am puzzled, dismayed and utterly shocked. I hope he turns out to be a lone wolf Tim McVey type nut job who acted alone and isn’t part of a wider network of cold blooded murderers who will strike again and again – we have enough of those in the world already.
All I can think of right now is how terrible this day is for the parents who are burying their children.
N.
Jul 24th 2011, 5:39 pm
#25
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Re: Norway shootings thread
Norway youths discussed Palestine prior to attack.
Forty-eight hours before Friday massacre, teens participating in ruling party youth camp met with Norwegian foreign minister. Some called for boycott of Israel
Ynet Published: 07.24.11, 08:23 / Israel News
The teenagers who took part in Norway's ruling party youth camp in the island of Utoya met with Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere and demanded he recognize Palestine on Wednesday, two days before the deadly terror attack which left many of them dead.
Gahr Stoere told the youths that the Palestinians deserve a country of their own and that the occupation must end, Norwegian website Politisk reported. Several of the youths waved signs reading: "Boycott Israel."
Earlier this week, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas visited Norway and was told that Oslo will recognize Palestine, but not just yet.
The Norwegian FM told the youths Oslo is waiting for the official Palestinian proposal to be submitted to the UN in September.
Eskil Pedersen, leader of the Workers' Youth League said that the movement endorses a financial embargo on Israel.
He said that they will pursue a more active policy in the Middle East and expressed support for the resumption of peace talks. Gahr Stoere agreed, but said a boycott was not the way, explaining it will turn the dialogue into a monologue.
Ynet Published: 07.24.11, 08:23 / Israel News
The teenagers who took part in Norway's ruling party youth camp in the island of Utoya met with Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere and demanded he recognize Palestine on Wednesday, two days before the deadly terror attack which left many of them dead.
Gahr Stoere told the youths that the Palestinians deserve a country of their own and that the occupation must end, Norwegian website Politisk reported. Several of the youths waved signs reading: "Boycott Israel."
Earlier this week, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas visited Norway and was told that Oslo will recognize Palestine, but not just yet.
The Norwegian FM told the youths Oslo is waiting for the official Palestinian proposal to be submitted to the UN in September.
Eskil Pedersen, leader of the Workers' Youth League said that the movement endorses a financial embargo on Israel.
He said that they will pursue a more active policy in the Middle East and expressed support for the resumption of peace talks. Gahr Stoere agreed, but said a boycott was not the way, explaining it will turn the dialogue into a monologue.
Theres a picture in the link of youth holding up a "Boycott Israel"banner at the youth camp prior to the attack.
Jul 24th 2011, 6:00 pm
#26
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Re: Norway shootings thread
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...099122,00.html
Theres a picture in the link of youth holding up a "Boycott Israel"banner at the youth camp prior to the attack.
Jul 24th 2011, 6:06 pm
#27
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Re: Norway shootings thread
I think that was 1 factor amongst many. He seems to be pro Israel and anti Cultural Marxist. So maybee the guy choose the youth camp because they were in his eyes opposed to everything he stood for ( i.e. cultural marxism, opposing Israel, supporting Muslims).
Jul 24th 2011, 6:16 pm
#28
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Re: Norway shootings thread
as a complete side note i bet that if you ask 100 teenagers in Norway whether they support the palestinians then more than 90 will answer positively. this is not due to hating the jews or opposing the israeli state, but that the israelis are behaving rather badly and have done so for many many years....
Jul 24th 2011, 6:29 pm
#29
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Re: Norway shootings thread
of course he chose the camp because of the attendees' opinions and perceived 'threat' to his ideal society, but pulling up the fact that they support the palestinians in their struggle against the israelis is simplistic and stupid not to mention that it doesn't fit with the timeline. if you had taken the time to look a bit further than the headlines you would have seen that the chap had been planning this for several years.
as a complete side note i bet that if you ask 100 teenagers in Norway whether they support the palestinians then more than 90 will answer positively. this is not due to hating the jews or opposing the israeli state, but that the israelis are behaving rather badly and have done so for many many years....
as a complete side note i bet that if you ask 100 teenagers in Norway whether they support the palestinians then more than 90 will answer positively. this is not due to hating the jews or opposing the israeli state, but that the israelis are behaving rather badly and have done so for many many years....
Jul 24th 2011, 6:31 pm
#30
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Re: Norway shootings thread
The fact that most escaped witnesses (at least all shown on TV) seem to be non-ethnic norwegians IMHO better explains the reasons.
Last edited by northbadawi; Jul 24th 2011 at 6:48 pm.