The Dean

This issue is being debated live on BBC1 as I write..........

Esther Rantzen has just earned the biggest round of applause so far, with her comment:

"If I were God, I'd ban religion".

Worldismine

Not at all controversial or insensitive. But there several points. One, Arab governments in general probably like the Palestinians only because they hate Israel, if that makes sense, and even if they wanted Palestinians in their countries, to end the conflict like that will be like surrendering, and their pride will never allow that. 2nd, Jerusalem is also the home of Al Aqsa, and for 1200 years, with exception of crusades, has been under Muslim control, so Muslims in general will find it hard to relinquish. And the final and most important point is from the Palestinians, be they Hamas(Islamist) or Fata (nationalist), why should they give up their land? Why should they be the ones to move from where they have been for millenniums just because a state was established their 60 years ago.


Although I am a Muslim, I do have more respect for Israel as both a national and religious state then I do for most Arab and other Muslim governments. I respect them because of their intellect, success, and ability to unite Jews of different ethnic backgrounds and beliefs under one flag. When you consider what they have achieved in all fields without oil, and then compare them to, say, Saudi who have oil and a decade head-start you can't help but begrudgingly admire them.

If the Israeli writes a book the Arab will burn it, ban it, but never open it.
If the Arab writes a book the Israeli will read it, analyze it, evaluate it, get a psychologist to analyze and evaluate what it means between the lines, and then they will distribute it to let their people read and analyze it. And that is what makes them superior in all areas, despite having no resources and being outnumbered by 1-250

Ray

The world needs more like you .. Im impressed

AnotherWorld

Thankyou for reading my mind and looking at the bigger picture. Do I have your permission to quote you? :P

Norm_uk

Thanks for your eye opening answer.

From my own view I would agree with your views that that Arab governments are generally only pro-Palestinian in order to be anti-Israel...hence I always get a feeling that solidarity shown to the Palestinians is often shallow and it annoys me.

It goes beyond a piece of land (Arabs had land they conquered taken back such as during the Reconquista yet we don't hear too much about that from extremist groups do we?). I understand what they are saying about the Al Aqsa but a peace settlement could be reached that gives Muslim pilgrims access to the area while the city remains part of Israel or some UN administered area. It would probably be better off under neutral control to avoid any extremist group trying to take it over.

I think pride is indeed part of the problem. If the Jews can return and set up their own state in their historical homelands next it will be the Kurds or some other minority that has managed to survive the ages despite not having political power in their ancestral homelands.

Your comments about Israel are enlightening and reassuring that people can and do see things objectively regardless of their background (and we could all do with looking at the world a but more objectively sometimes before we let our passions get the better of us).

I would hate to think people are dying now simply because of pride and one Mosque though...my own country gave up the largest Empire in recorded history and puts up with a lot of flak from people it once ruled, often now in our own country - can you imagine how bad the world would be if we didn't swallow our pride and tried to hold on or get back lands we once ruled?

Anyway in the worlds of Dr. King: all men must learn to live together as brothers or they will die together as fools.

N.

Worldismine

Ray, Norm, Another world, lets all have a group hug. And celebrate this breakthrough.

Ray

Now your going too far ... I tried that with MH ... it didn't work for me either

Alen1

If I were God, I'd be bloody-well ashamed of myself.

AnotherWorld

Not being a religious person, I still found this perspective interesting
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475226,00.html

Apologies for it being Fox but there are a few other stories of the bloke out there on the web.

Obviously he has linked islam to his being raised to bring about violence which I'm not necessarily saying is correct but its just another interesting perspective from someone intimate with the Israel/Palestine situation.

Beard Man

For all those who think that people in Gaza are weak and shouldn't fight for their own rights just because Israel has the military power i need to ask them one question

why none of you wished that the UN will take an action againest Israel?

what Israel is doing is nothing but a crime... and another crime is what the democratic world is doing.. they are not only watching wat is happening but aslo providing Israel with the needed weapons and needed polititic excuses for what they do.

W10

Neither side wants peace. It does not suit the leaders of either side for their to be peace.

Norm_uk

I'd love to hug but we're not related and might get arrested

But seriously even though we've had a breakthrough in our forum sessions we're only a drop of water in a very very dirty ocean...people would rather revert back to the programming of the parents, peers and culture than make their own views and opinions.

It's always been and always shall be easier to believe than to think...

Peace!

N.

Norm_uk

Beard Man.

I don't think anyone here supports the killing of innocent people for any reason - either Jew or Arab. It is murder and is always evil.

I honestly think the people in Gaza would achieve more by not fighting back...violence can only give birth to more violence. Perhaps my view is not going to be popular and some will even accuse me of taking sides but they have been fighting for years and it has achieved nothing but more extremism, more bloodshed, more pain and more innocents killed. Look what happened in Northern Ireland when the IRA stopped fighting...more than in 30 years of them fighting.

If people want change they will have to do something that they have not done before. It's that simple and yet so difficult. Every time an Israeli or an Arab have honesty tried to make peace with each other in the past they have been killed by their own people (like with Rabin or Sedat). That tells me none of the leaders or conservatives on either side want peace.

It seems everyone has enough religion to make them hate each other but not enough to make them love each other.

N.

Alen1

And what is the undemocratic world doing?

Squirty Cream

So as a brother Arab, what are you doing yourself to help? Sending money, raising money, giving blood, organising collections of food, clothing - anything solid and real?

Or are you just paying lipservice?