Bipat

There is a difference between worldwide accepted facts, reported on all news channels and newspapers, and personal opinions.

As I said above are any of the points I made about Pakistan not accepted and true? You did not answer.

Living for much of the year in a neighbouring country you do see actual TV footage of what is happening!!

BBC News - Malala Yousafzai speech in full

Tockalosh

India = total shambles at every level. Attrocious filthy, shitty country. Too many Indians, too much shit, everyone lies,everyones by necessity party to corruption. Have I been there, yep too many times and still going.
To be honest it is at times better than Egypt but given that Egypt is a total shithole at every level, thats not difficult. Have I been there? Yes too many times and still going.
There really is no reason for it to be so shite except that the top ecehelons of Indian society seem to like most of the people living like shit and in shit. Now spending time in China with an equally big population and the place appears far better at every level. The Chinese have migrated from bicycles to Volkswagens in a generation and have got the hang of driving pretty well. i have yet to drive on an Indian highway with anything less than shite driving standards.

The only time India worked appears to have been when the British ran the place and I know more than a few educated Indians who agree with that.

Bipat

Sorry you didn't enjoy your visits.
Which places did you go??
As you know 28 states all absolutely different,the big cities, towns all different.
I dislike Delhi intensely, OH will not go there, never again he says!! Others disagree entirely.

Shit-- you must have spent a lot of time in the slums???
I don't think the majority middle-class think of themselves as in "shite".
The 40% in poverty yes a disgrace after 68 years.

"Everyone lies"---None of my large extended family lie, as far as I know, none of our neighbours, friends etc lie; at least no more than I do!!

I assume you go there for work or business, I also have a (probably also unjust) prejudice in disliking some of the business community. Going into a country to make money and then 'slating' the country!

Corruption, what do you think of the new Government?? already changes made.

Highways more "shite" for you, I dislike Mumbai driving, no problems in Bangalore or Chennai (my favourite city).

"India worked when the British ran the place"---
something that local people with frustrations at difficulties like to say to British visitors. Next time you hear that ask them how they liked it when they were treated as second class 'natives' with restrictions on where they could go, also enquire about the larges scale famines, latter not badly run, just ignored. They must be remembering their childhoods!!!

Finally, if you dislike it so much, why, why go again???
We only came to the UK end of June, I am already homesick for my adopted country and home in north Karnataka.

scot47

Mohammed Ali Jinnah and the others in the Muslim League thought they were going to create an "Islamic Utopia" when they carved West and East Pakistan out of British India. Look at what has come about there.

Bipat

Agree with you. Jinnah was ill with TB and died within a year of independence.
Maybe history would have been different if he had been long lived. Who knows??

Tockalosh

Bipat
I have no dramas with you being defensive of your home country but come on...... You must have the best pair of fake Rose tinted glasses ever. I haven't been up to Delhi or Kashmir or Darjeeling but have spent shit loads of time in Bombay, Calcutta, Hyderabad, Bangalore Gujarat in general, Kerala especially kochi, vizag, bhubeneshwar, tekkali, the list goes on. City, industrial and rural. I have seen rats running down the kitchen wall in the only 5 star hotel in navi Mumbai.

I do have a desire to see shimla for it's history.

Bangalore has it's charms. Tree lined streets and a city centre-ish golf course. Perhaps the nicest place I have seen.

Alcohol fueled truck drivers in the outside (fast) lane of an interstate highway doing 30 mph at best with every other clown meandering around with zero spacial awareness..... What is clever about that? And we won't even talk about the corruption behind the highways program. Almost every page bar sport of the Hindu times is full of scandal and corruption.

My company is in India for the long run. I honestly wish it wasn't but we are hardly raping the country. The locals manage that just fine by themselves.

India should look to china for guidance on how to progress. They are hardly corruption free but the place does work well and people don't need to shit in the streets.

Bipat

Not rose tinted glasses, just different opinion. There are rats everywhere in India!!! It is a hot country. (Probably one or two even get into the Taj Mumbai).

Yes newspapers full of scandal and corruption, just like the UK Daily mail. Sports page you must have missed the olympic scandal!!! No flag because a corrupt official would not resign.

You like Bangalore, I don't, city center is air pollution ++. As I said it is a matter of opinion.

Not been to Shimla, it is said to be very commercialised. Jodhpur, Udaipur beautiful ( just my opinion).

I asked you what you thought of the new government, you didn't answer, Mr Modi is preferring Japan to China. Read about his welcome. New bullet train to Gujarat, will help you!!

He has a lot to do to put right, yes the mess left by the Congresss Government, legacy of the British and the Nehru dynasty.

As to China --short on human rights, are they not??? Houses demolished and people homeless etc. Presumably they shit outside.

Overall, I don't think India has done too badly for just 68 years of freedom from occupation. You would disagree as does OH (who still remembers the childhood "No Natives" signs). He despises Congress Gov.

So maybe you could look with clear glasses and an open mind at the good instead of always and only at the bad.


PS, Maybe your "everyone lies" needs an apology, an obviously untrue, insulting, prejudiced statement.

Tockalosh

I didn't comment on politics because I don't follow it closely enough to be able to comment with any degree pf competency. I was there before the elections and had my hotel booking cancelled at the last minute because modi and his entourage of chai wallahs were coming to town.
With the exception of goans All but one Indian I have ever known has routinely lied so what do you want me to say. I have bad taste in Indians ? My company only employs bad Indians ?
Winston Churchill summed up the Indian nation very well and his comments still hold true now but so as not to fall short of the high standards expected on this board, I won't repeat on here but it's worth googling.
India is generally the sewer of the world full of scoundrels and one which condones the most despicable treatment of it's nationals all in the medieval name of caste.
And all that before I mention shitting in the streets. India would rather send a rocket to mars than provide the means to have a shit in private. Talk about ****ed up priorities.

Tockalosh

Are you Anglo-Indian by the way?

Bipat

You comment in such a disparaging way how India is run and yet admit you don't follow politics!! Staying only in hotels, doesn't really give you a picture of normal life.
I know what Winston Churchill said, he, who ignored the famines and refused food imports.

There are a billion people living there, how many does your company employ?
How many Goans have you met????
I can only say that none of my relatives, family, friends, neighbours, workers lie. So therefore you are making a personal insult, with such a sweeping statement. You should meet more people!!
(Unless you count as a lie, "I will come tomorrow to mend" your whatever and then doesn't turn up, but I think this is only in our home town).

Castism is illegal, yes, it still goes on as does classism elsewhere.
Caste origins are in the work they originally did, as in Smith/Thatcher etc. too complicated to explain here.

You are obsessed with shit, the advancement of science etc in any country is a separate issue from other responsibilities.
Yes, Indian government has been far too slow to help the very poor who have no proper facilities, they have had 68 years, of rule after all.
Modi will improve matters, or his party will never be re-elected.

Anyway looking forward to returning to my adopted sewer in Oct.

Bipat

No, I am British, (white if this might be important). Married into an Indian family too long ago to keep count of the years.

shiva

I think everybody except you would count that as a lie

scrubbedexpat141

Indians just got added to the work list of nationals I don't trust.

So far it's:

Egyptians
Indians

Millhouse

My favourite is when I went to collect a car from the garage after an accident. I'd already seen it in the yard and it looked poor, but I played along.

I went inside, to do the collection. The supervisior came out to walk to the car with me. I said to him, "so, did you inspect the car", "yes, sir"... "and you are proud of the work? They have done a good job", "yes, sir, I inspected it personally and they did a great job"

We got to the car. I pointed out several major issues - over spray, things not aligned etc. and asked "so, you think this is good?" "I'm sorry sir, I did not inspect this car"

mikewot

Having had several discussions at work over this we reached the conclusion that Indians don't believe that they're lying, they just don't want to disappoint you. So if you ask whether they have x, y or z they say yes (don't forget the head wobble), doesn't matter that they haven't even heard of it because their second cousin once removed on their uncles side knows someone who works in a place where they might know someone who might have heard of this thing and maybe they know where it can be obtained.