Burka Ban
Apr 19th 2011, 8:02 am
#76
Excess Baggage
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,479
Re: Burka Ban
Dear lady?? i must admit i have a weird nickname, I blame my parents - Shearer became Sherri!!!
I don’t disagree with you however there is much more to this ‘discussion/hatred’ than just a simplistic comparison between a Burka, Sari’s and African robes. The truth is Abrahamic religions dominate the world and have a history of disagreements, incompatibilities and influencing each other’s views and values etc.. But let’s not go there and just stick to the basics respect the human race and live and let live no point in wasting energy on useless topics.
I don’t disagree with you however there is much more to this ‘discussion/hatred’ than just a simplistic comparison between a Burka, Sari’s and African robes. The truth is Abrahamic religions dominate the world and have a history of disagreements, incompatibilities and influencing each other’s views and values etc.. But let’s not go there and just stick to the basics respect the human race and live and let live no point in wasting energy on useless topics.
Apr 19th 2011, 8:25 am
#77
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai ex Edinburgh
Posts: 279
Re: Burka Ban
The weather must get really hot here, most people whinge (including my wife) edit....all Brits like a wee moan but let’s put an end to this and when the time comes use our voting rights to make this a law in Britain like France so we can all sleep peacefully.
Apr 19th 2011, 8:32 am
#78
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai ex Edinburgh
Posts: 279
Re: Burka Ban
As a fellow idealist, I'd love to think that was possible, but as a rapidly-ageing curmudgeon, I don't think we can count on this "live and let live" philosophy from everyone. If only we really did treat everyone the way we want to be treated ourselves, the world would be a much better place.
Apr 19th 2011, 9:00 am
#80
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai ex Edinburgh
Posts: 279
Re: Burka Ban
Mrs will be well disappointed too; I have been saving up to fund the Trans-Atlantic cruise tour. Oh well I’ll just buy the new Samsung 3D LED they were showcasing in Mall of Emirates and enjoy the destruction on 3D, let’s hope Sky's covering.
Apr 19th 2011, 9:05 am
#81
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,373
Re: Burka Ban
Political talk is quite different from stating I have a book which was given to me by god, whom you can't see but if you don't do what the book says and kill God's enemies (who conveniently happen to be my enemy’s things won't go well for you. It’s a cold hard fact that the biggest mass killings in history took place in the name of far left politics. It can also be argued that Nazism contains many leftist doctrines – indeed they called themselves National Socialists not Fascists.
Then again when we look at the track record of socialism in its many guises from Stalin to Castro to Kim Jong with their absolutist political doctrines, murder and imprisonment of opponents and critics, and their penchant for mass murder, intolerance and death I see a lot in common with some religious ideologies!
N.
Apr 19th 2011, 9:18 am
#82
Excess Baggage
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,479
Re: Burka Ban
I felt the leg pull but Glen Beck is just too low a comparison, only one up from Hitler in my eyes.
Political talk is quite different from stating I have a book which was given to me by god, whom you can't see but if you don't do what the book says and kill God's enemies (who conveniently happen to be my enemy’s things won't go well for you. It’s a cold hard fact that the biggest mass killings in history took place in the name of far left politics. It can also be argued that Nazism contains many leftist doctrines – indeed they called themselves National Socialists not Fascists.
Then again when we look at the track record of socialism in its many guises from Stalin to Castro to Kim Jong with their absolutist political doctrines, murder and imprisonment of opponents and critics, and their penchant for mass murder, intolerance and death I see a lot in common with some religious ideologies!
N.
Political talk is quite different from stating I have a book which was given to me by god, whom you can't see but if you don't do what the book says and kill God's enemies (who conveniently happen to be my enemy’s things won't go well for you. It’s a cold hard fact that the biggest mass killings in history took place in the name of far left politics. It can also be argued that Nazism contains many leftist doctrines – indeed they called themselves National Socialists not Fascists.
Then again when we look at the track record of socialism in its many guises from Stalin to Castro to Kim Jong with their absolutist political doctrines, murder and imprisonment of opponents and critics, and their penchant for mass murder, intolerance and death I see a lot in common with some religious ideologies!
N.
As for Hitler and socialism...Hmm, we've had this discussion before. It's not really helping anyone or contributing anything by trying to say Hitler belonged to "your lot" or this lot or that lot. It could be argued that the far extremes of left and right come full circle and there's a lot of overlap. He was off the scale at both ends.
I don't think names mean a lot either. North Korea call themselves "Democratic" and so did East Germany, and I don't think Mr Marx had the likes of Stalin and Pol Pot in mind when he came up with his ideas on economic systems. The point about religion is a good one, because ideologies of all kinds are often born of high and admirable values, but become corrupted by human greed and selfishness and a need to control.
Apr 19th 2011, 9:31 am
#84
Excess Baggage
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,479
Re: Burka Ban
Found a good debate about the left/right thing here:
http://www.americasdebate.com/forums...php/t5909.html
A post by Wertz on 31 March 2004 at 04.05am is worth a read.
http://www.americasdebate.com/forums...php/t5909.html
A post by Wertz on 31 March 2004 at 04.05am is worth a read.
Apr 19th 2011, 9:49 am
#85
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,373
Re: Burka Ban
Do you often attend Trafalgar club’s dinner parties and/or are you here in the Middle East to fund these parties? Do you believe in an indigenous British society? Do you want Britain to become Saudi –i.e. intolerant country?
I usually stay away from such discussions and personally I don’t give a monkeys what others wear, drink and eat as long as they are not enforcing their views and culture on me but since you decided to label all lefties and moderate decent Brits ‘terrorists’ because they believe in the concept that one should let others live their lives as they see fit, i couldn’t resist posting this note – apologies if I have offended you but you should be more careful and try to avoid posting inappropriate comments that may offend folks on public forms.
I usually stay away from such discussions and personally I don’t give a monkeys what others wear, drink and eat as long as they are not enforcing their views and culture on me but since you decided to label all lefties and moderate decent Brits ‘terrorists’ because they believe in the concept that one should let others live their lives as they see fit, i couldn’t resist posting this note – apologies if I have offended you but you should be more careful and try to avoid posting inappropriate comments that may offend folks on public forms.
I would see Britain stop tolerating the intolerant. More work at integrating immigrants (or only giving them work visas) might help matters a little. Less political correctness and name calling every time someone has an opinion that doesn't follow the "narrative" would be nice too. For example, you don't know me and haven't likely read many posts by me but were happy to suggest I am a member of the BNP fundraising arm despite the fact that I don't meet the BNP's membership requirements of a "pure" western European (I think they have been forced to change that now though as it is illegal hehe).
Sadly the far left does have a terrible track record (and I don't know why you included moderate Britons in my charge - I certainly didn't) with violence. Forcing their vision of equality upon the world has created North Korea, Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao - who killed far more than Hitler could have ever dreamed of...but hey, the motivation was a nice one so that makes it alright?
As for offending people - we're all grown up and can grow thicker skin and come back with counter-arguments and claims can't we?
N.
Apr 19th 2011, 9:58 am
#86
Excess Baggage
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,479
Re: Burka Ban
I had to look up who the Trafalgar Club were - sounded like a Napoleonic era re-enactment society!
I would see Britain stop tolerating the intolerant. More work at integrating immigrants (or only giving them work visas) might help matters a little. Less political correctness and name calling every time someone has an opinion that doesn't follow the "narrative" would be nice too. For example, you don't know me and haven't likely read many posts by me but were happy to suggest I am a member of the BNP fundraising arm despite the fact that I don't meet the BNP's membership requirements of a "pure" western European (I think they have been forced to change that now though as it is illegal hehe).
Sadly the far left does have a terrible track record (and I don't know why you included moderate Britons in my charge - I certainly didn't) with violence. Forcing their vision of equality upon the world has created North Korea, Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao - who killed far more than Hitler could have ever dreamed of...but hey, the motivation was a nice one so that makes it alright?
As for offending people - we're all grown up and can grow thicker skin and come back with counter-arguments and claims can't we?
N.
I would see Britain stop tolerating the intolerant. More work at integrating immigrants (or only giving them work visas) might help matters a little. Less political correctness and name calling every time someone has an opinion that doesn't follow the "narrative" would be nice too. For example, you don't know me and haven't likely read many posts by me but were happy to suggest I am a member of the BNP fundraising arm despite the fact that I don't meet the BNP's membership requirements of a "pure" western European (I think they have been forced to change that now though as it is illegal hehe).
Sadly the far left does have a terrible track record (and I don't know why you included moderate Britons in my charge - I certainly didn't) with violence. Forcing their vision of equality upon the world has created North Korea, Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao - who killed far more than Hitler could have ever dreamed of...but hey, the motivation was a nice one so that makes it alright?
As for offending people - we're all grown up and can grow thicker skin and come back with counter-arguments and claims can't we?
N.
Last edited by littlejimmy; Apr 19th 2011 at 10:00 am.
Apr 19th 2011, 10:04 am
#87
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,373
Re: Burka Ban
Interesting comment, seeing as how much of "culture" is in a state of flux; is there a particular British culture or era of British culture you would like frozen in time that we all should live by?
How about Victorian Britain?
This strikes me as typical of most expats by the way, who think they are living some kind of overseas adventure by living in Dubai in gated or expat communities, eating their English breakfasts from Waitrose, watching BBC world news and drinking in the Red Lion.
Who then complain about how foreigners in the UK never integrated. Bloody hell
How about Victorian Britain?
This strikes me as typical of most expats by the way, who think they are living some kind of overseas adventure by living in Dubai in gated or expat communities, eating their English breakfasts from Waitrose, watching BBC world news and drinking in the Red Lion.
Who then complain about how foreigners in the UK never integrated. Bloody hell
What do the Victorians have to do with social norms in modern society? They covered up even more than we do...if anything a burka would be less offensive to them than to us. Also, even to Victorians we have some common ground, a common language and a mutual love of booze and bacon
Thanks for your "typical expat" judgement. I don't know many people who do fit that description to be honest - and the people on this bored who actually know me would probably tell you I don't fit your stereotype very well.
In any case the logic of your comparison between expats and immigrants to the UK is flawed. No expat gets a passport or asks for one. No expat even expects to be treated with the same respect as a native. No expat I know ever ripped the veil off a local lady in disgust, spoke on TV about how degenerate local culture whilst living off government handouts.
So expats are simply guests who can be kicked out if they don't follow the law or respect local custom - which is fair enough in my opinion. Every group of people has the right to preserve it's customs and control it's own destiny in it's own land...except it seems indigenous Europeans and the immigrants who integrate into their culture. How dare they make comments or pass laws on what is acceptable dress and behaviour in their own country
Apparently we have to tolerate the intolerant now.
N.
Apr 19th 2011, 10:08 am
#88
Excess Baggage
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,479
Re: Burka Ban
In any case the logic of your comparison between expats and immigrants to the UK is flawed. No expat gets a passport or asks for one. No expat even expects to be treated with the same respect as a native. No expat I know ever ripped the veil off a local lady in disgust, spoke on TV about how degenerate local culture whilst living off government handouts.
N.
Apr 19th 2011, 10:56 am
#89
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,373
Re: Burka Ban
I'm all for one doing whatever makes them happy and the British keen support for individualism is one to never be taken for granted.
But I am not in support of a certain religion seemingly receiving special privileges and exemptions and being treated with extra soft gloves because it is a certain religion. And I'm not in support of the authorities keeping quiet when members of the said religion go around making nuisances of themselves, criticising British society while exploiting it to the full and getting away with attacking/destroying symbols of British culture, when other groups in the UK aren't allowed to do the same.
Ask yourself, dear lady, why Hindu women wearing saris or African women in their robes are never such a hot topic in the UK, but the burka is.
But I am not in support of a certain religion seemingly receiving special privileges and exemptions and being treated with extra soft gloves because it is a certain religion. And I'm not in support of the authorities keeping quiet when members of the said religion go around making nuisances of themselves, criticising British society while exploiting it to the full and getting away with attacking/destroying symbols of British culture, when other groups in the UK aren't allowed to do the same.
Ask yourself, dear lady, why Hindu women wearing saris or African women in their robes are never such a hot topic in the UK, but the burka is.
N.