The Burka
Oct 28th 2013 | 8:43 am
#121
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 691
Re: The Burka
And many Muslims also leave Islam when they go to Britain - or at least go to a very liberal reformist version which is as wishy washy as Anglicanism 
Council of Ex-Muslims comes to mind...unsurprisingly they have faced death threats from with the UK - by immigrants and converts who have enriched us culturally no doubt
I personally know four Muslims in the UAE including an Emirati who have completely rejected the faith they were raised in. In the UK I know about the same who were from Muslim backgrounds. I also know one who converted then left after five years or so. Anecdotal I know but I wonder what the real numbers are like.
N.
Council of Ex-Muslims comes to mind...unsurprisingly they have faced death threats from with the UK - by immigrants and converts who have enriched us culturally no doubt
I personally know four Muslims in the UAE including an Emirati who have completely rejected the faith they were raised in. In the UK I know about the same who were from Muslim backgrounds. I also know one who converted then left after five years or so. Anecdotal I know but I wonder what the real numbers are like.
N.
Oct 28th 2013 | 8:53 am
#122
Shark Fisherman
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,568
From: Doha
Re: The Burka
You are a good example of why I strongly believe that all the GCC countries should adopt the same policy as that of the home office in the UK. The home office has introduced a law that before granting anyone visa to stay he/she must sit in for an English language exam, as well as a culture test, and no one is given visa without passing those tests. I strongly support this move because I have seen ethnic women who have lived 30 odd years in England yet they still couldn’t speak English. I therefore believe that any one offered a job in the GCC he/she must first pass a basic Arabic language test and most importantly an Islamic knowledge test, and no job should be offered to anyone regardless of his/her caliber who fails those tests. If I understand from you, you have lived in the GCC for many years, yet I can see your knowledge of Islam is nothing more than the stuff one reads in a British Tabloid.
We are here because generally the people that pass your test have just enough brain cells to breathe and talk. On the other hand someone in the UK that cannot speak the language is just going to be a leech on society as they are unable to work.
Oct 28th 2013 | 9:27 am
#123
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Re: The Burka
Ooh la...
Anyway banning it is not so much about female liberation as male deprivation.
Of control & power.
Anyway banning it is not so much about female liberation as male deprivation.
Of control & power.
Oct 28th 2013 | 9:37 am
#124
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,695
From: Vancouver, BC
Re: The Burka
Around 5,000 "Brits" convert each year, out of a population of some 65m. (Bear in my that many of those "Brits" are immigrants.) So what's going to change, Redshark? How is it "likely" that Islam will win over Brits' hearts and minds when the current rate of conversion is so low?
http://www.exmuslim.org/
there's also a few reddits etc. I belong to a few atheist groups, there's quite a few closeted Muslims on them.
Oct 28th 2013 | 2:07 pm
#125
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 208
Re: The Burka
What you need to understand about Islam, is that unlike Christanity, for example, Islam is not much concerned about how many follow or how many leave. The first message Any reader of the Quran gets is that this book is not in the business of appeasing anyone. It gives you the truth it believes in straight in your face with a clear message, take it or leave it, if you take it you will be successful, and if you leave it you are doomed.
You cannot leave Islam without subjecting yourself to the danger of being killed for being apostate. I'd say that's a fair indicator of how 'unconcerned' your religion is about how many leave.
I'd also say Islam is pretty well interested in how many follow too. There are fair chunks of the operating manual devoted to conversion, who can, how (evidently not by the sword - clearly some people didn't read the manual) and what a Muslim society's obligations are in terms of running itself is when it comes to Shariah law.
As for the successful/doomed bit - I'm so doomed, having all that equality in the eyes of society and the law. My testimony counts as much as a man's in a court of law. I inherit equally along with my brothers. I could state my religion as Jedi and the law would still treat me the same way. I don't need any male relative's permission to do anything. I have as much right to custody of my children as my husband. I can divorce my husband as easily as he can divorce me. I don't have to cover my hair any time for anybody. Yeah, that spells doom to me too......
Oct 28th 2013 | 3:52 pm
#126
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,643
Re: The Burka
It is tribalism; they (Muslim ummah) think if one of theirs leaves, they are losing out on demographics, power and influence and the non Muslims gain.
Oct 28th 2013 | 3:55 pm
#127
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,643
Re: The Burka
What you need to understand about Islam, is that unlike Christanity, for example, Islam is not much concerned about how many follow or how many leave. The first message Any reader of the Quran gets is that this book is not in the business of appeasing anyone. It gives you the truth it believes in straight in your face with a clear message, take it or leave it, if you take it you will be successful, and if you leave it you are doomed.
Oct 28th 2013 | 4:11 pm
#128
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,643
Re: The Burka
You are a good example of why I strongly believe that all the GCC countries should adopt the same policy as that of the home office in the UK. The home office has introduced a law that before granting anyone visa to stay he/she must sit in for an English language exam, as well as a culture test, and no one is given visa without passing those tests. I strongly support this move because I have seen ethnic women who have lived 30 odd years in England yet they still couldn’t speak English. I therefore believe that any one offered a job in the GCC he/she must first pass a basic Arabic language test and most importantly an Islamic knowledge test, and no job should be offered to anyone regardless of his/her caliber who fails those tests. If I understand from you, you have lived in the GCC for many years, yet I can see your knowledge of Islam is nothing more than the stuff one reads in a British Tabloid. It’s really a shame that you didn’t pick up anything more.
Going back to your question, I have already answered that question before, but in brief, if what you are claiming is true then how come you find so many different religions existing in the Muslim world? How come the only Christians sect that speaks the Aramaic language of Jesus Christ is found only in the Muslim world? How come 10% of Egypt are Christians? Compare those results with how many Muslims remained in Spain after the inquisition. Having lived and ruled Spain for 700 years The number of Muslims who were left in Spain after the inquisition was zero, Null, cero, noll, nihilo, paria zero.
I hope you got the idea.
Talking of Egypt, worth mentioning that two prime ministers in Egypt in the past were actually Christians. I am waiting to see some Muslim prime minister in the British Parliament. I think I am dreaming a bit, let’s see first of all if someone with Welsh, Scottish, or Irish accent can make it to the prime minister’s seat. Neil Kinnock, bless him, had thought he could do just that. He thought that even with his Welsh valleys accent he could still make it to that position. He just made fool of himself
Going back to your question, I have already answered that question before, but in brief, if what you are claiming is true then how come you find so many different religions existing in the Muslim world? How come the only Christians sect that speaks the Aramaic language of Jesus Christ is found only in the Muslim world? How come 10% of Egypt are Christians? Compare those results with how many Muslims remained in Spain after the inquisition. Having lived and ruled Spain for 700 years The number of Muslims who were left in Spain after the inquisition was zero, Null, cero, noll, nihilo, paria zero.
I hope you got the idea.
Talking of Egypt, worth mentioning that two prime ministers in Egypt in the past were actually Christians. I am waiting to see some Muslim prime minister in the British Parliament. I think I am dreaming a bit, let’s see first of all if someone with Welsh, Scottish, or Irish accent can make it to the prime minister’s seat. Neil Kinnock, bless him, had thought he could do just that. He thought that even with his Welsh valleys accent he could still make it to that position. He just made fool of himself
Re. Spain
Islam in Spain came as an invasion force and then got kicked out, so no shit there aren't going to be any noticeable numbers of Muslims afterwards.
Thing is that Spain despite being once invaded by Muslims, has willingly allowed Muslims back in and even tolerates them to retain their Muslim culture. What Muslim nation willingly allows any significant number of non Muslims in? Infact it is the opposite with Islam, everywhere Islam invaded, it dominated the natives and the minority of non Muslims who didn't succumb, are 2nd class citizens who 'know their place'.
Re.Egypt
It was mostly Christian before Islam invaded and waged genocide, so you trying to claim some sort of positive out of there being Christians left in Egypt is like Spanish asking for credit for not totally exterminating the Natives. Egypt has been plagued for decades anti Coptic pogroms, and if Mursi had remained in power, he and his fellow Islamists would have further persecuted the Copts.
Why should there be requirement for a Muslim PM of the UK; Islam isn't native , it is a minority religion in the UK and last but not least how many Muslim countries allow non native religions any significant political presence in their countries.
Oct 28th 2013 | 4:23 pm
#129
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,706
From: Dubai, working at Dust World Central
Re: The Burka
That is a general question scamp. There are so many different problems facing the Muslim world, social, financial, and off course political problems, just like any other nations. The major problem, however, is the political problem which are directly related to the Middle East political problems. And the major Middle East political problem is the Palestinians problem, and the main cause of the palestinans problem is the city of Jerusalem. This city has been the heart of so many problems throughout the history
Oct 28th 2013 | 4:40 pm
#130
**** it we'll do it live
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,892
From: Dubai
Re: The Burka
How come the only Christians sect that speaks the Aramaic language of Jesus Christ is found only in the Muslim world?
because they were there before Islam even existed, its their home and despite centuries of abuse and slaughter some still survive.
How come 10% of Egypt are Christians?
Again because they were there before islam
Compare those results with how many Muslims remained in Spain after the inquisition. Having lived and ruled Spain for 700 years The number of Muslims who were left in Spain after the inquisition was zero, Null, cero, noll, nihilo, paria zero.
The invaders left, your point is?
I hope you got the idea.
i think i speak for all sane people here when i say yes, you are clearly deluded and a bit slow
I think I am dreaming a bit, let’s see first of all if someone with Welsh, Scottish, or Irish accent can make it to the prime minister’s seat. Neil Kinnock, bless him, had thought he could do just that. He thought that even with his Welsh valleys accent he could still make it to that position. He just made fool of himself
because they were there before Islam even existed, its their home and despite centuries of abuse and slaughter some still survive.
How come 10% of Egypt are Christians?
Again because they were there before islam
Compare those results with how many Muslims remained in Spain after the inquisition. Having lived and ruled Spain for 700 years The number of Muslims who were left in Spain after the inquisition was zero, Null, cero, noll, nihilo, paria zero.
The invaders left, your point is?
I hope you got the idea.
i think i speak for all sane people here when i say yes, you are clearly deluded and a bit slow
I think I am dreaming a bit, let’s see first of all if someone with Welsh, Scottish, or Irish accent can make it to the prime minister’s seat. Neil Kinnock, bless him, had thought he could do just that. He thought that even with his Welsh valleys accent he could still make it to that position. He just made fool of himself
Welsh, David Lloyd George
If you are going to live in the UK perhaps you should apply your own test to yourself.
I suggest you take a look at this page
What was your point again?
Oct 28th 2013 | 4:48 pm
#131
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: The Burka
That is a general question scamp. There are so many different problems facing the Muslim world, social, financial, and off course political problems, just like any other nations. The major problem, however, is the political problem which are directly related to the Middle East political problems. And the major Middle East political problem is the Palestinians problem, and the main cause of the palestinans problem is the city of Jerusalem. This city has been the heart of so many problems throughout the history since the time it was first built.
But what is more relevant to you, and also to answer the video Dean put up is the problem facing Islam in Europe. I can tell you that Islam in Europe faces two serious enemies, the Muslim radicals, and the media. Those two have shown to be good bed partners. The media loves them because their news generate good revenue, and they love the media because they get publicity for free. The only victim in this union is the message from the creator, Islam
But what is more relevant to you, and also to answer the video Dean put up is the problem facing Islam in Europe. I can tell you that Islam in Europe faces two serious enemies, the Muslim radicals, and the media. Those two have shown to be good bed partners. The media loves them because their news generate good revenue, and they love the media because they get publicity for free. The only victim in this union is the message from the creator, Islam
The second bit is interesting, I agree. Islam's biggest problem is it's image and negative portrayal in mainstream media which the masses read, unfortunately we all know that the masses feed off ignorance and are generally pretty stupid.
For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with any religion. I disagree with lots of aspects of all of them but who cares? It makes you happy.
The extremists / radicals will give any society / club / group / cabal / religion a bad name. The problem with the GCC and Al Qaeda / Taliban et al is that it's all cloaks and daggers and the local nations are never going to do anything useful or selfless to help solve problems of radicals.
I'm still waiting for a serious group of Christians to wage war. YEs, there have been the odd small instances of individuals acting like fools, but I don't believe we've seen any hard line Christian radicals wanting to blow shit up or whatever.
Maybe a difference in religion, but I think more likely, a difference in culture.
Oct 28th 2013 | 5:11 pm
#132
**** it we'll do it live
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,892
From: Dubai
Re: The Burka
I'm still waiting for a serious group of Christians to wage war. YEs, there have been the odd small instances of individuals acting like fools, but I don't believe we've seen any hard line Christian radicals wanting to blow shit up or whatever.
Maybe a difference in religion, but I think more likely, a difference in culture.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...the_last_crusa
Mr Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe." The statement continues
To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades. Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince's executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to "lay Hajiis out on cardboard." Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince's employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as "ragheads" or "hajiis."
Mr Prince is further accused of trying to cover up Blackwater's misdeeds, which allegedly include profiteering and arms smuggling, by killing employees who tried to blow the whistle on the company.
Oct 28th 2013 | 5:13 pm
#133
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: The Burka
crusades and look up erik prince and blackwater. that bloke pretty much started his own modern crusade
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...the_last_crusa
Mr Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe." The statement continues
To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades. Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince's executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to "lay Hajiis out on cardboard." Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince's employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as "ragheads" or "hajiis."
Mr Prince is further accused of trying to cover up Blackwater's misdeeds, which allegedly include profiteering and arms smuggling, by killing employees who tried to blow the whistle on the company.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...the_last_crusa
Mr Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe." The statement continues
To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades. Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince's executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to "lay Hajiis out on cardboard." Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince's employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as "ragheads" or "hajiis."
Mr Prince is further accused of trying to cover up Blackwater's misdeeds, which allegedly include profiteering and arms smuggling, by killing employees who tried to blow the whistle on the company.
What a ****ing nutjob.
Oct 28th 2013 | 5:15 pm
#134
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,643
Re: The Burka
crusades and look up erik prince and blackwater. that bloke pretty much started his own modern crusade
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...the_last_crusa
Mr Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe." The statement continues
To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades. Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince's executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to "lay Hajiis out on cardboard." Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince's employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as "ragheads" or "hajiis."
Mr Prince is further accused of trying to cover up Blackwater's misdeeds, which allegedly include profiteering and arms smuggling, by killing employees who tried to blow the whistle on the company.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...the_last_crusa
Mr Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe." The statement continues
To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades. Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince's executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to "lay Hajiis out on cardboard." Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince's employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as "ragheads" or "hajiis."
Mr Prince is further accused of trying to cover up Blackwater's misdeeds, which allegedly include profiteering and arms smuggling, by killing employees who tried to blow the whistle on the company.
Oct 28th 2013 | 6:13 pm
#135
Nothing doin' here
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,508
