Upcoming Referendum

Old Apr 29th 2016, 1:00 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Depends on whether you want this issue to continue to poison British politics for another generation. To my mind the real danger is that a 'Leave' vote will lead to another Scottish independence referendum and the breakup of the UK. For no other reason than that I'll be voting 'Remain'.
Don't kid yourself that the referendum will 'clear the air', any more than the Scottish referendum did.
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 1:03 pm
  #62  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Davita View Post
If UK exits EU what will happen to all those receiving UK OAP currently index-linked in EU. Will they be denied index-linking like the rest of pensioners in non-EU countries?
Good point. I'm not certain, but presumably the state pension would be frozen on Brexit. Unfreezing it would require a fresh reciprocal agreement. I wouldn't be hopeful that one would be made any time soon.
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 1:10 pm
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Editha View Post
Don't kid yourself that the referendum will 'clear the air', any more than the Scottish referendum did.
Oh, I'm not. That the SNP won all but three Westminster seats in the General Election is proof of that. My concern is that they shouldn't be given the political excuse to call for another referendum. The crash in oil prices certainly helps but a 'Remain' vote would hopefully close the door on that for at least another generation.

Originally Posted by Editha View Post
Good point. I'm not certain, but presumably the state pension would be frozen on Brexit. Unfreezing it would require a fresh reciprocal agreement. I wouldn't be hopeful that one would be made any time soon.
A 'Leave' vote won't mean instant Brexit. They'll be at least two years of negotiations to untangle ourselves. The reality is that we will most likely rejoin EFTA, remain part of the EEA and be in much the same position as now when all is said and done.

I'm not expecting a 'Leave' win in any case.
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 1:24 pm
  #64  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

What I meant was that, just as the SNP don't accept the Scottish referendum vote as the last word on the matter, neither will the Brexiters accept the result of the EU referendum. At the very least, the issue will continue to fester within the Conservative Party.

On the point about pensions, what determines the status quo? Do Brits in Europe get their pension increases thanks to the EU, EFTA or the EEA? Because if it is the EU, surely they will lose it, unless there is a fresh reciprocal agreement? I'm not even sure whether the agreement would have to be with the EU, or each country individually.
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 1:25 pm
  #65  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Davita View Post
If UK exits EU what will happen to all those receiving UK OAP currently index-linked in EU. Will they be denied index-linking like the rest of pensioners in non-EU countries?
It's not only pensioners in EU countries who get annual RP rises.

They get them in the USA for example.
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 1:34 pm
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Editha View Post
What I meant was that, just as the SNP don't accept the Scottish referendum vote as the last word on the matter, neither will the Brexiters accept the result of the EU referendum. At the very least, the issue will continue to fester within the Conservative Party.
More than likely but that's not much of a concern to me

On the point about pensions, what determines the status quo? Do Brits in Europe get their pension increases thanks to the EU, EFTA or the EEA? Because if it is the EU, surely they will lose it, unless there is a fresh reciprocal agreement? I'm not even sure whether the agreement would have to be with the EU, or each country individually.
On the pensions question I understand that it depends on whether there is a bilateral deal between the UK and the country in question so it shouldn't be affected by any potential Brexit. There are deals with the US and Jamaica for instance but none with Australia, New Zealand or Canada.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-state-pension

Last edited by BritInParis; Apr 29th 2016 at 1:39 pm. Reason: Added link
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 1:43 pm
  #67  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

I've found the answer, which is on the gov.uk site: the pension increases in Europe result from membership of the EEA, so if the UK leaves the EU, but remains in the EEA, then pensions will not be affected.

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-...-state-pension
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 2:49 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Depends on whether you want this issue to continue to poison British* politics for another generation. To my mind the real danger is that a 'Leave' vote will lead to another Scottish independence referendum and the breakup of the UK. For no other reason than that I'll be voting 'Remain'.
*English Tory
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 2:56 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
It's not only pensioners in EU countries who get annual RP rises.

They get them in the USA for example.
Yes, outside the EEA, it depends on a reciprocal agreement with the country concerned.

I'm not certain about whether if leaving the EU we will automatically remain members of the EEA. But, if we do then ex-pat pensioners in the EEA will get their annual increase. If not, then it will depend on whether we rejoin the EEA, or make a reciprocal agreement, which presumably will have to be with each country individually. That could take some time (like several years).
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Old Apr 29th 2016, 4:07 pm
  #70  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

I can imagine that pensioners in EU, unable to get their pension increases and having the spending value of their pension diminished if sterling drops, will return to UK and register again with the NHS and demand the inflation increases in pensions.
I hope the systems can cope.
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 2:19 am
  #71  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Editha View Post
Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership - NHS Confederation
The NHS view appears to be that negotiations so far, to protect the NHS are going smoothly.
Personally, I have some qualms about TTIP, but I don't see any reason to regard it as a threat to the NHS. That is just scaremongering.
Under TTIP, if a government enacts health or safety regulations that result in a foreign product previous saleable becoming prohibited then the affected seller can seek and obtain money damages from the lawmaking country.

In other words our power to make health and safety laws are no longer ours but become the property of privately owned multinational corporations.

MSF opposes TTIP for that reason. Which may be why their hospitals are being destroyed in a series of false flag attacks.
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 8:09 am
  #72  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

The terms of the TTIP are still being negotiated, and according to the NHS itself:

"The latest text of the EU's negotiating proposal to the US, made public on 31 July, contains strong safeguards which enable Member States to retain full control over how they provide health services."

The suggestion that some kind of international capitalist conspiracy is resulting in MSF hospitals in Syria being bombed because of opposition to TTIP is utterly ridiculous.
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 9:33 am
  #73  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Tr1boy View Post
I'm torn. Heart says OUT for sure.

Looking at bank my account and the exchange rate, head says IN.
That is me!
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 10:40 am
  #74  
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I think there are many of us torn between the two, we are damned if we leave, and we are damned if we don't!

Perhaps we could compare it with running towards a chasm being chased by a monster. Should we try and reason with the monster and give it whatever it wants, whenever it wants, or jump free to the other side but not knowing if we can make it?
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 4:12 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by aries View Post
Should we try and reason with the monster and give it whatever it wants, whenever it wants, or jump free to the other side but not knowing if we can make it?
You mean like the UK being forced to join the Euro? Oh wait...
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