Upcoming Referendum
May 12th 2016, 6:47 am
#121
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
And therein lies the rub.
Many Brexiters were happy enough until the Eastern European countries were allowed to join.
Some of the proposals on free movement within the Commonwealth only include the richest members.
I suspect it's a case of keeping the rich in power and screwing the poorer countries. Again.
Many Brexiters were happy enough until the Eastern European countries were allowed to join.
Some of the proposals on free movement within the Commonwealth only include the richest members.
I suspect it's a case of keeping the rich in power and screwing the poorer countries. Again.
However the visa situation is reciprocal, visas for India started around the time of the assassination of Mrs Gandhi, and the requirements are now very strict because of terrorism risks. those British of Indian origin and spouse etc. can get long term visas on 'proof' of origin, but again very strict as regards evidence.
May 12th 2016, 9:08 am
#122
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
It's a matter of market forces. Citizens of poor and unstable countries are more likely to want to come to and remain in a rich and stable country because it is more safer and more prosperous than their homeland.
Likewise a freedom of movement scheme only works when there is movement in both directions which only happens when all the countries involved are comparatively wealthy. No-one cared about EU/EEA freedom of movement when it was just Western Europe as relatively similar numbers of people moved between the countries involved. It was only when Poland and the other A8 countries joined in 2004 that you had a disproportionally large number of people moving from East to West. This was compounded by the fact that only the UK, Ireland and Sweden didn't put transitional measures in place meaning that, rather than also going to Germany and France, the vast majority moved to the UK. There are currently only 4500 Britons living in Poland but 800,000 Poles living in the UK.
Similarly a 'Commonwealth' scheme would work if it was the Five Eyes countries minus the USA but not if you added in the Indian subcontinent and Nigeria.
Likewise a freedom of movement scheme only works when there is movement in both directions which only happens when all the countries involved are comparatively wealthy. No-one cared about EU/EEA freedom of movement when it was just Western Europe as relatively similar numbers of people moved between the countries involved. It was only when Poland and the other A8 countries joined in 2004 that you had a disproportionally large number of people moving from East to West. This was compounded by the fact that only the UK, Ireland and Sweden didn't put transitional measures in place meaning that, rather than also going to Germany and France, the vast majority moved to the UK. There are currently only 4500 Britons living in Poland but 800,000 Poles living in the UK.
Similarly a 'Commonwealth' scheme would work if it was the Five Eyes countries minus the USA but not if you added in the Indian subcontinent and Nigeria.
May 12th 2016, 9:23 am
#123
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
Just like Europe the Indian sub-continent is not one country. There are vast differences between the individual countries. India is stable and a major economic trading partner.
As to visas your original point, I can assure you for British getting even a tourist a visa for India is an headache for many. (They don't want to be overwhelmed by Brits. again. (Joke- the tourist industry is flourishing).
As to visas your original point, I can assure you for British getting even a tourist a visa for India is an headache for many. (They don't want to be overwhelmed by Brits. again. (Joke- the tourist industry is flourishing).
May 12th 2016, 4:15 pm
#125
Born again atheist
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
May 12th 2016, 7:26 pm
#126
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Joined: Oct 2010
Location: The sunshine state
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
Interesting comment(s). Received warm applause.
May 12th 2016, 7:33 pm
#127
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Joined: Oct 2010
Location: The sunshine state
Posts: 1,358
Re: Upcoming Referendum
Leave wins the Spectator Brexit debate at the London Palladium | Coffee House
I watched Daniel Hannan on Question Time the other week. Impressed.
I watched Daniel Hannan on Question Time the other week. Impressed.
May 12th 2016, 7:56 pm
#128
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May 12th 2016, 8:07 pm
#129
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,194
Re: Upcoming Referendum
Just like Europe the Indian sub-continent is not one country. There are vast differences between the individual countries. India is stable and a major economic trading partner.
As to visas your original point, I can assure you for British getting even a tourist a visa for India is an headache for many. (They don't want to be overwhelmed by Brits. again. (Joke- the tourist industry is flourishing).
As to visas your original point, I can assure you for British getting even a tourist a visa for India is an headache for many. (They don't want to be overwhelmed by Brits. again. (Joke- the tourist industry is flourishing).
As for Indian visas, only the citizens of Bhutan, Maldives and Nepal can visit India visa-free, so it's not comparable with the UK's visa policy. In any case British citizens can now obtain an Indian e-Tourist visa quite easily.
May 12th 2016, 8:58 pm
#130
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
Neither are Canada, Australia and New Zealand - it's a matter of relativity. India may be richer and more stable than Pakistan or Bangladesh but by any indices you wish to use the countries of the subcontinent are collectively far poorer per capita and much less stable than Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the UK.
As for Indian visas, only the citizens of Bhutan, Maldives and Nepal can visit India visa-free, so it's not comparable with the UK's visa policy. In any case British citizens can now obtain an Indian e-Tourist visa quite easily.
As for Indian visas, only the citizens of Bhutan, Maldives and Nepal can visit India visa-free, so it's not comparable with the UK's visa policy. In any case British citizens can now obtain an Indian e-Tourist visa quite easily.
Why would anyone ever want to consider the such different countries of the sub-continent collectively? That is not an issue.
Anyway I think it is all academic. I personally can't imagine India joining in any scheme with free movement over its borders.
Not sure what you mean by not comparable with UK's visa policy?
The e-visa for tourists started for UK this year, and is for 30 days. A slight problem is that it can only be applied for shortly before travel, so if it is refused for any reason it would be a mad rush to get an ordinary 6 months tourist visa. Yes it is, in general an improvement for holiday visitors and was welcomed by the tourist industry. Many travellers do like to get a 6 month multiple entry visa as before and stay longer
Overall things have become a little easier once time had passed since the David Headley debacle.
May 12th 2016, 9:32 pm
#131
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,194
Re: Upcoming Referendum
Why would anyone ever want to consider the such different countries of the sub-continent collectively? That is not an issue.
Anyway I think it is all academic. I personally can't imagine India joining in any scheme with free movement over its borders.
Not sure what you mean by not comparable with UK's visa policy?
Not sure what you mean by not comparable with UK's visa policy?
The e-visa for tourists started for UK this year, and is for 30 days. A slight problem is that it can only be applied for shortly before travel, so if it is refused for any reason it would be a mad rush to get an ordinary 6 months tourist visa. Yes it is, in general an improvement for holiday visitors and was welcomed by the tourist industry. Many travellers do like to get a 6 month multiple entry visa as before and stay longer
Overall things have become a little easier once time had passed since the David Headley debacle.
Overall things have become a little easier once time had passed since the David Headley debacle.
May 12th 2016, 9:51 pm
#132
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
Canada - No
Australia - No
New Zealand - No
India - Yes. (Pakistan and China over the Kashmir region)
May 12th 2016, 10:11 pm
#133
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
On both the Fragile States Index and Global Peace Index India is considered more stable and peaceful than Pakistan and Bangladesh but AUSCANNZUK are significantly higher than India.
Not so different within the criteria being discussed.
I think you just answered your own question.
Again, only the citizen of three neighbouring countries can visit India visa-free so British citizens have it better than many other countries and I would hazard it is far simpler for a British citizen to obtain a visa for India than vice versa.
Not so different within the criteria being discussed.
I think you just answered your own question.
Again, only the citizen of three neighbouring countries can visit India visa-free so British citizens have it better than many other countries and I would hazard it is far simpler for a British citizen to obtain a visa for India than vice versa.
It was previously quite difficult for Indian people to get visas to visit UK but has now become much easier. For those using a travel agent the agent arranges everything, and a sponsorship letter etc.
It used to be necessary for the sponsor to get the letter signed by a Notary Public and even retired visitors to fill in their taxation details. We have in the past, even had to give evidence of our house registration when relatives visited from India. As I said it is much easier now.
(Although has always been easier for them to get visas for USA.)
The main problem for British wishing to stay long term is the 180 days limit for any one stay.
May 12th 2016, 10:26 pm
#134
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Re: Upcoming Referendum
(Australia and New Zealand are surrounded by sea!! Their neighbours are quite a long way away!!!!)
Anyway as I said in above post, India would not want to join in any scheme allowing free movement over its borders. So this discussion is just academic
I think it started by somebody questioning why just a few countries of the Commonwealth would join together.*Forgot to add---- Kashmir State is a popular tourist and skiing destination for domestic and foreign tourists.
Last edited by Bipat; May 12th 2016 at 10:55 pm.