Upcoming Referendum

Old Jun 28th 2016, 12:42 am
  #211  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Derrygal View Post
Oh how smug you are!! Just as well you're not living in California now isn't it? Maybe if you were an expat about to retire this year and collect your British pension you'd be singing a different tune.
It's hard to argue that the pound was overinflated on a purchasing power parity basis. Most estimates I've seen recently of such parity put the exchange rate at about $1.55. The Economist's "Big Mac" index puts it at $1.71 :-)

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Old Jun 28th 2016, 12:59 am
  #212  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by rebeccajo View Post
I'd like to give you something to really ponder over. Seriously since you say you like a good discussion.

I've always had nothing but admiration for the construct of the EU. For the ideal of it. Americans like me are pretty lucky that we've never had war on our front doorstep. And I mean literally at the front door, as Europeans have experienced. The Europeans who put the single market together wanted to keep any future megalomaniac from hoarding all his countries assets, all the while plotting world domination.
Excellent point. The problem is, the world is now filled with several megalomaniacs who want to hoard their country's assets. That's the reason for the Brexit. People at the top are not listening to the rest of the citizens.



The Europeans who put the EU together felt that free movement of people across the continent would improve the overall prospects of citizens. All would benefit from being able to work and live freely together.

Nothing wrong with moving from country to country, as long as authorities can keep track of anyone who poses a danger to the public.

I still think this is a noble, important ideal. Given the history of Europe, I frankly can't understand why this concept has been lost on people. I don't think it would be good at all for the EU to break up. I really don't understand why anyone would wish that.

The concept is not lost on the people. It's lost on the bureaucrats who forgot about the people. That's the reason some citizens throughout Europe want an end to the EU. Go back to basics and we'll be better off.

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Old Jun 28th 2016, 1:43 am
  #213  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The Tory leadership challenger that worries me most is Theresa May. She's kept herself out of the public eye. She's the perfect candidate from the Remain point of view because she avoided both campaigns and would be seen as neutral. But she's currently the Home Secretary and has form for being in favour of reducing immigration.
Some voted Leave as a protest. They've since realised that if enough people protest, someone actually has to do whatever was promised.



=He said that on Friday, and that nothing will change regarding migration apparently.

Lol Yes, I know he said that on Friday. I was mentioning his disgusting comment.


=On a comfy bed next to his German wife, probably.
He has a wife who tolerates him? lol



=Did you really think Farage actually has any say in how money is spent?

Farage isn't a Westminster MP, nor is he a member of the PM's Cabinet, therefore he can't make any promises as to what money goes where, other than UKIP funds.
Ah, he's not a member. I did not know this.



=Farage ALWAYS plays the immigration card. The UK can prevent any EU national from entering the UK on grounds of Public Health, Public Policy or Public Security, and have done so many times.
Yes but, barring any of the above, anybody from the EU could enter the UK freely and go anywhere without a passport. Now, that the UK is free from the EU, people must show a passport to enter the country. With proper security, the bad guys will be stopped at the border. (I did state PROPER security, right?)



=I think you mean 51st state!
No, I meant sister country. We have many similarities however, the UK does know how to hold its own.

Last edited by BEVS; Jun 28th 2016 at 2:21 am. Reason: quotes people. quotes
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 8:33 am
  #214  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK View Post
Yes but, barring any of the above, anybody from the EU could enter the UK freely and go anywhere without a passport.
No, they can't. EU nationals do have to show passports to enter the UK. Even UK nationals have to show passports.

EU nationals can freely enter any of the Schengen area countries without a passport. Neither the UK or Ireland are part of the Schengen area.

Now, that the UK is free from the EU, people must show a passport to enter the country.
The UK is not free from the EU though. There was a non-binding referendum, Parliament will decide whether to accept the result, then the UK government (whoever replaces Cameron in October) has to notify the EU that the UK is officially leaving by activating Article 50.

Then the UK has 2 years to leave (or longer if the EU agrees to an extension.

With proper security, the bad guys will be stopped at the border. (I did state PROPER security, right?)
With accurate information sharing, the bad guys details will be on the Schengen Information System database so that if they turn up at passport control, the immigration officer can make the correct decision.

Even though we're not a Schengen country, we still have access to the same database. If we're not in the EU, I doubt we'll keep that access. Will that improve our security?
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 1:46 pm
  #215  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK View Post












Ah, he's not a member. I did not know this.









Seriously? You did not know that Farage is not an MP?



Not trying to throw flames on the discussion, but that's a very well known bit of information. I realize everyone has a right to their opinion. But I have to wonder what else you don't about the issues?
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 8:05 pm
  #216  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by rebeccajo View Post
Seriously? You did not know that Farage is not an MP?



Not trying to throw flames on the discussion, but that's a very well known bit of information. I realize everyone has a right to their opinion. But I have to wonder what else you don't about the issues?
Nigel Farage is an MEP, Member of the European Parliament.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 9:49 pm
  #217  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by aries View Post
Nigel Farage is an MEP, Member of the European Parliament.
Yes he is. But he is not a MP and has no influence in crafting policy at Westminster.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 10:02 pm
  #218  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by aries View Post
Nigel Farage is an MEP, Member of the European Parliament.
It's all very confusing innit?
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 10:13 pm
  #219  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK View Post
Hello everyone.
What I heard this morning is beyond troubling.
Nigel Farage stated in an interview, that there is no guarantee of the money that was being sent to the EU will be put back in the NHS.
How does this man sleep at night?
Part of the exit campaign was based on keeping Britain's money IN BRITAIN.
It's unbelievable, he's just another deceptive (blank) out for his own interests.

What's bothersome is how Farage played the immigration card.
He played upon everybody's fears regarding that issue.
There is no way, Britain will kick out immigrants. If that happens, the EU will send British citizens back home. There's no way Britain will stop new immigrants from coming in (IF VETTED RIGHT). If that happens, UK citizens won't be able to settle anywhere except in the UK. I do agree that Britain should be managing their borders and keep out anyone who would cause harm.

At least the banks in Britain were smart to prepare for the Brexit vote. PM David Cameron just announced that provisions have been made for the next few years. I guess they knew Mr. Farage was hiding something.

Anyway, what's done is done. The vote has knocked world markets down for now but they will bounce back. Trade will continue and the U.S. will not abandon its' sister country. I still believe in the long run, Britain's exit from the EU will be a benefit and that other countries will follow.

Which brings me to Scotland. Hopefully, the Scottish people will wait to see what happens before declaring their independence. It wouldn't make sense for Scotland to remain in the EU if France, Italy and Greece are the next countries to depart.

Any other thoughts?

Please, no nasty responses
I love discussing issues but there's no need to be rude to each other.
I missed this post and this is not a nasty response I hope, but I'm gobsmacked by the naiveté of it,
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 10:24 pm
  #220  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
I missed this post and this is not a nasty response I hope, but I'm gobsmacked by the naiveté of it,
I think your response is actually very restrained.

I also think that if people had actually bothered to check the claims made by both sides, the referendum would have had a different result.

Of course, if the media and politicians had been made to print the facts, it would have made it easier for the public to verify things.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 10:47 pm
  #221  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Without all the back office, home office peons doing what they have to on this Brexit workings, does the UK need to trigger 'article 50' - if not & it doesn't, then what happens, will it simply be the UK will remain in the EU until article 50 is triggered, or can the European parliament simply kick the UK out of the EU at some point?

Foregoing the above, I see in the newspapers that Cameron has said he will let the new leader of the conservative party (sometime after October) trigger article 50. Is that right, or can the UK from now till October trigger article 50?

.

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Old Jun 28th 2016, 10:53 pm
  #222  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I think your response is actually very restrained.

I also think that if people had actually bothered to check the claims made by both sides, the referendum would have had a different result.

Of course, if the media and politicians had been made to print the facts, it would have made it easier for the public to verify things.
The person making the post is not British. He is someone who lives in another country, is taking an interest in what's going on, and trying to understand it all.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:08 pm
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by not2old View Post
Without all the back office, home office peons doing what they have to on this Brexit workings, does the UK need to trigger 'article 50' - if not & it doesn't, then what happens, will it simply be the UK will remain in the EU until article 50 is triggered, or can the European parliament simply kick the UK out of the EU at some point?

Foregoing the above, I see in the newspapers that Cameron has said he will let the new leader of the conservative party (sometime after October) trigger article 50. Is that right, or can the UK from now till October trigger article 50?

.
Nothing happens until HMG pull the trigger on Article 50. Legally the PM could just put it off indefinitely as the referendum is merely advisory. Politically it would be impossible to do so without a fresh mandate, either another referendum or a general election where the winning party had made an explicitly Remain manifesto pledge. If Labour could dump Corbyn and get its sh*t together before September the latter might actually be a goer.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:18 pm
  #224  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Nothing happens until HMG pull the trigger on Article 50. Legally the PM could just put it off indefinitely as the referendum is merely advisory.

Politically it would be impossible to do so without a fresh mandate, either another referendum or a general election where the winning party had made an explicitly Remain manifesto pledge. If Labour could dump Corbyn and get its sh*t together before September the latter might actually be a goer.
interesting is that - the 'mandate part', especially should the HMG just sit tight & not trigger article 50 (because it doesn't know what to do for the fear of triggering it causes a UK civil unrest or something so bad it would be irreversible) or, that the new Cons leader is a fence sitter, right down to maybe even a strong 'remain' in the EU backer - then it comes round to 'lets have another referendum' because it appears the public weren't informed previously of all the facts of what it means to leave the EU.


.

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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:19 pm
  #225  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
No, they can't. EU nationals do have to show passports to enter the UK. Even UK nationals have to show passports.

EU nationals can freely enter any of the Schengen area countries without a passport. Neither the UK or Ireland are part of the Schengen area. QUOTE

Thank you for the clarification. It just proves that once again the American media (where I heard about the passport issue) has no idea what they're talking about (or they do know and won't broadcast it to US citizens).

Thank you for informing me about the Schengen area as well. I knew nothing about that until your post. This is what I meant when I once stated that Americans aren't as worldly as we think we are. No offense but there are many things we US folk don't know about when it comes to other countries. This is why I want to travel overseas.



QUOTE=The UK is not free from the EU though. There was a non-binding referendum, Parliament will decide whether to accept the result, then the UK government (whoever replaces Cameron in October) has to notify the EU that the UK is officially leaving by activating Article 50.

Then the UK has 2 years to leave (or longer if the EU agrees to an extension. QUOTE

Yes, I forgot about Article 50. Sorry about that.



QUOTE=With accurate information sharing, the bad guys details will be on the Schengen Information System database so that if they turn up at passport control, the immigration officer can make the correct decision.

Even though we're not a Schengen country, we still have access to the same database. If we're not in the EU, I doubt we'll keep that access. Will that improve our security?
I don't think the EU would be that vindictive to keep terrorist information away from the UK. If they did that, there would be outrage throughout the world. No way do I see that happening.
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