Upcoming Referendum

Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:23 pm
  #226  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by not2old View Post
Without all the back office, home office peons doing what they have to on this Brexit workings, does the UK need to trigger 'article 50' - if not & it doesn't, then what happens, will it simply be the UK will remain in the EU until article 50 is triggered, or can the European parliament simply kick the UK out of the EU at some point?

Foregoing the above, I see in the newspapers that Cameron has said he will let the new leader of the conservative party (sometime after October) trigger article 50. Is that right, or can the UK from now till October trigger article 50?

.
The UK can trigger Article 50 anytime it chooses to if Parliament decides we're going to Leave, or even not trigger it at all if Parliament decides we're going to Remain a member of the EU after all.

The EU can't trigger Article 50, and there is no process for the EU to unilaterally remove a member state from the EU.

Originally Posted by Mallory View Post
The person making the post is not British. He is someone who lives in another country, is taking an interest in what's going on, and trying to understand it all.
Then Googling the characters and their claims probably helps.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:27 pm
  #227  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK View Post
I don't think the EU would be that vindictive to keep terrorist information away from the UK. If they did that, there would be outrage throughout the world. No way do I see that happening.
I agree, the EU isn't going to withhold info on terrorists from the UK, but
Anti-Terrorism information is usually shared through the Police databases, not via the Schengen visa database.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:31 pm
  #228  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I agree, the EU isn't going to withhold info on terrorists from the UK, but
Anti-Terrorism information is usually shared through the Police databases, not via the Schengen visa database.
currently done with CIA/FBI, MI5/6, Mossad & whomever else
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:32 pm
  #229  
 
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by not2old View Post
interesting is that - the 'mandate part', especially should the HMG just sit tight & not trigger article 50 (because it doesn't know what to do for the fear of triggering it causes a UK civil unrest or something so bad it would be irreversible) or, that the new Cons leader is a fence sitter, right down to maybe even a strong 'remain' in the EU backer - then it comes round to 'lets have another referendum' because it appears the public weren't informed previously of all the facts of what it means to leave the EU.


.
Frankly at this point anything is a possibility. The Lib Dems have already said that if there's another General Election then they will pledge to block Brexit which they won't have enough MPs to do alone but it would definitely win them back some seats they lost over tuition fees. If Labour also does the same and we're left with a minority Conservative government that might work.

Thanks to the Lib Dems and their Fixed-term Parliaments Act it's now more difficult to dissolve Parliament to call a general election so another possibility would be a second referendum on the terms of the new EU agreement before we hit the two year limit with the options on the ballot paper being "status quo" and "new deal". If status quo wins then we pull the plug on Article 50 and life goes on as if the first referendum never happened. Well, there'll be a political sh*tstorm in the UK and possibly civil unrest but we would remain in the EU.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:33 pm
  #230  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by rebeccajo View Post
Seriously? You did not know that Farage is not an MP?



Not trying to throw flames on the discussion, but that's a very well known bit of information. I realize everyone has a right to their opinion. But I have to wonder what else you don't about the issues?
Hi rebeccajo
No, I did not know about Mr. Farage but that's why I'm on this site, to learn about what really goes on in Britain. I'm not going to get the right information from the American press.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:33 pm
  #231  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I think your response is actually very restrained.

I also think that if people had actually bothered to check the claims made by both sides, the referendum would have had a different result.

Of course, if the media and politicians had been made to print the facts, it would have made it easier for the public to verify things.
This is what troubles me. Not only about the result, but about the entire discourse over the last several months.

Many, many people are now complaining about having been lied to. I would say to them - yes, you were. By both sides. I would also say this - did you really expect not to be? Did you, as a voter, trust what was being said by either side? Did it never occur to you to independently vet what you were hearing?

Maybe my problem is I read too much about issues I'm interested in. Issues that are important or interesting to me. I often have to google and follow links. I cross check claims. That's what they taught us to do in civics class back in the 70's. It's a pain in the arse. It's hard. And it shouldn't be. But politicians lie. All of them.

If all anyone did, before they went to the polls last Thursday, was believe what was written on the side of a big red bus, or what they read in the red tops, or what they heard in the pub - then that's on them. Both sides. There was loads of factual information out there to be had. Independent, factual, statistical information.

Should they be mad that the party leaders 'lied' to them? Sure. But this wasn't your average vote. This was life changing and global. It was serious. I believe there are a lot of people who went to the polls with less care given to their vote than they would take in buying a sofa. Those people, in my opinion, should be putting their pitchforks away.

Both sides.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:34 pm
  #232  
 
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I agree, the EU isn't going to withhold info on terrorists from the UK, but
Anti-Terrorism information is usually shared through the Police databases, not via the Schengen visa database.
Originally Posted by not2old View Post
currently done with CIA/FBI, MI5/6, Mossad & whomever else
You're thinking of Interpol. The UK is also a member of Europol - its boss is a Welshman - but that would come to an end if we Brexited.
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Old Jun 28th 2016, 11:36 pm
  #233  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK View Post
Hi rebeccajo
No, I did not know about Mr. Farage but that's why I'm on this site, to learn about what really goes on in Britain. I'm not going to get the right information from the American press.
There was diddly about this in the American press up until last week. Save for public radio. NPR has run a series of interviews (for several weeks now) interviewing people across the UK about the referendum. It was really, really interesting.

I've been reading many UK publications online for months. That's how I tried to keep up.
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Old Jun 29th 2016, 12:12 am
  #234  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
I missed this post and this is not a nasty response I hope, but I'm gobsmacked by the naiveté of it,
No, nothing nasty in your response.
I will admit my knowledge of Britain is limited (even though my family origins come from East London and I do speak with a British accent.)
Anyway, I'm happy to have these discussions with you and everyone else on this board.
That's the only way I will have the facts about the UK
Yes, I can go on the internet but who says the sites I view here in the US are factual?
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Old Jun 29th 2016, 12:20 am
  #235  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK View Post
Hi rebeccajo
No, I did not know about Mr. Farage but that's why I'm on this site, to learn about what really goes on in Britain. I'm not going to get the right information from the American press.
The New York Times' coverage has been excellent; a lot better than many of the rags that pass for newspapers in the UK.
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Old Jun 29th 2016, 8:27 pm
  #236  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
The New York Times' coverage has been excellent; a lot better than many of the rags that pass for newspapers in the UK.

I haven't read the New York Times lately.
If I'm going to get news from Britain, I'd rather watch BBC or be on here and get news from all of you.
Anyway, the stock markets are going back up.
Dow Jones, the FTSE and a few others. As I stated before, I believe everything will be alright.
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Old Jun 29th 2016, 9:15 pm
  #237  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

what now, Cameron is back home, candidates are ready with their nominations to be the new leader.

Stephen Crabb at the forefront has been on the 'remain in the EU' - would this change anything, could article 50 be on hold & is it possible to have another referendum before the EU pushing to triggering Article 50 now?

As a side, Crabb has a French wife, not that it would make any difference what happens next
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Old Jun 29th 2016, 9:34 pm
  #238  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by not2old View Post
what now, Cameron is back home, candidates are ready with their nominations to be the new leader.

Stephen Crabb at the forefront has been on the 'remain in the EU' - would this change anything, could article 50 be on hold & is it possible to have another referendum before the EU pushing to triggering Article 50 now?

As a side, Crabb has a French wife, not that it would make any difference what happens next
We won't know for definite the full list of candidates until after noon UK time tomorrow.

A remain candidate could be successful if the party (and those who voted Leave) can see that their future leader is going to stand firm against the EU regardless of whether the EU is responsible for real or perceived issues (or not).

Personally though, I think it will be a Leave MP who wins, and who picks a mainly Leave Cabinet (though a neutral leader will likely be less confrontational in exit negotiations than a Leave-er). In this, Theresa May is a likely choice as a neutral, and Gove likely as a Leave-er.
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Old Jun 29th 2016, 9:36 pm
  #239  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
We won't know for definite the full list of candidates until after noon UK time tomorrow.

Personally though, I think it will be a Leave MP who wins, and who picks a mainly Leave Cabinet (though a neutral leader will likely be less confrontational in exit negotiations than a Leave-er). In this, Theresa May is a likely choice as a neutral, and Gove likely as a Leave-er.
it should be an interesting few months ahead.

watch this space
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Old Jun 29th 2016, 9:39 pm
  #240  
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Default Re: Upcoming Referendum

Originally Posted by not2old View Post
it should be an interesting few months ahead.

watch this space
I like interesting when I know the boundaries.

I'd rather be a little more sure of what the Brexit boundaries are.
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