Just returned to UK to film for TV prog....initial thoughts
Dec 14th 2008, 9:28 am
#556
Weirdo Latin Dude
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Hotter than hell
Posts: 2,545
Re: An interesting day at the shopping centre!
Many of the convicts were only guilty of stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starting families as a result of the social injustices and deprivation of Georgian England.
The corruption came not from the convicts but the priests, police officers and jailers who came on the ships with them. It's this hierarchy of anarchy that has forged generations of corruption in Australia today.
I love it when people give their expert theories.
The corruption came not from the convicts but the priests, police officers and jailers who came on the ships with them. It's this hierarchy of anarchy that has forged generations of corruption in Australia today.
I love it when people give their expert theories.
Dec 14th 2008, 9:31 am
#557
Weirdo Latin Dude
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Hotter than hell
Posts: 2,545
Re: Just returned to UK to film for TV prog....initial thoughts
I for one don`t have any strange theories about AUS and thoroughly enjoyed my time in Perth and thought it a great place to live (weather apart) I suspect that it has similiar problems to any other first world country as well.
What a strange thing to say.
Dec 14th 2008, 9:35 am
#558
Weirdo Latin Dude
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Hotter than hell
Posts: 2,545
Re: An interesting day at the shopping centre!
Just as a matter of interest and while there is some suggestion that the 'underclass' is unique to Britain, which it is not, there are currently approx 10 million people in the UK receiving some kind of benefit. This includes the long term sick, elderly, parents and disability. Only 1.7 million are actually receiving long term unemployment benefit and the UK government has just released a white paper outlining their intention to force people to work for their benefits.
1.7 million 'chavs', whatever this means, isn't bad out of a population of 61 million.
I think these figures are correct but anyone can do their home work by looking up the government stats which are usually reliable when it involves paying out money.
1.7 million 'chavs', whatever this means, isn't bad out of a population of 61 million.
I think these figures are correct but anyone can do their home work by looking up the government stats which are usually reliable when it involves paying out money.
Dec 14th 2008, 10:34 am
#559
Banned
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,769
Re: An interesting day at the shopping centre!
I owned my first house at 18 and by 25 I owned 2 houses. I had my daughter at 23 after being married 5 years then i had my son at 25. I ran a business when they were babies and I have never claimed benefits other than family allowance to which i was entitled.
Today I own a successful company and I am also a writer on several subjects. I made money early in life by sheer hard work and renovating property. My parents still live in a council house but I never have. Both my children have good jobs, they've never been in trouble and they are well respected members of the community as am I. All my life I have contributed to and won awards for services to the community, notably children's causes.
My father was a lazy, violent drunken bully who broke my mothers arms in front of us. He rarely worked and in my mothers generation, there were no safe houses or domestic violence units.
The thing I remember most about my childhood was not the deprivation in the home, it was label I was given by people who placed themselves in the position of judging my situation by how it looked to them. By todays standards, we would have been called chavs. I have come to realise that this labelling upon some parts of society is mostly formed through ignorance and fear by those who have their own insecurities and inadquacies but are in denial about facing upto them.
The UK may have it's social problems but I do not believe they are as great in number as they are being presented. It is common for some to suggest that this is the greatest problem facing the UK and that chavs, single mothers, those receiving benefits are the main cause of the social breakdown that Britain is experiencing. But Britain has other problems. It is now close to leading the world in obesity. What's the difference between a 'chav' who contributes nothing but takes the money from the taxpayer and the person who takes no responsibility towards caring for their health, yet expects to be given immediate NHS treatment when health problems occur at no expense to them yet it costs the taxpayer far more annually to fund the NHS's growing problem of treating obesity than it costs to fund those receiving benefits? If I was going to be worried about any aspect of returning to the UK, it would be on health grounds.
The difference is personal accountability and responsibility. I took responsibility for myself at a young age and the only reason I could was because I had a handful of good influences in my young life who did the opposite of writing me off at a critical age. If most of the kids who are currently being born to 'chavs' today, had the same kind of input instead of being labelled and made to feel guilty because of their parents, maybe some of Britains social ills could start to turn around.
Dec 14th 2008, 10:37 am
#560
Bitter and twisted
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Upmarket
Posts: 17,503
Re: An interesting day at the shopping centre!
[QUOTE=cricket1;7065813]But Britain has other problems. It is now close to leading the world in obesity. QUOTE]
....but behind the US and Australia.
....but behind the US and Australia.
Dec 14th 2008, 10:48 am
#561
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 716
Re: Just returned to UK to film for TV prog....initial thoughts
Agenda? Not everyone has an 'agenda' on these boards.
As for uni education, I've been clear on that and I do feel that if you're British and can prove a definite intention to remain settled in the UK, then you should be able to access UK education at less cost than someone who has no heritage or ties to the UK...which currently is not the case.
Benefits....it was purely an exercise to establish exactly what assistance is available as a safety net 'should' things go pear shape initially. These are difficult and unpredictable times. I see nothing wrong in accessing services temporarily when needed. We discovered we wouldn't be eligible for anything and you won't have heard me whinging about that either. The visit was also to establish what rules are in place regarding us returning, what we need to do upon return and whether we need to specifically tell anyone 'Honey, we're home'! I was told the Job Centre is now where you go to access all information regarding health, tax, pension etc. which is why I went there.
I'm just tired of the personal jibes and attacks for what I thought would be a gentle ramble on our take on the UK. I really thought after a hicough that the vitriole was over....and I'm asked what 'my' agenda is!
Well, the rain has stopped and the mist is clearing, I've a heap of people to see today and I feel the need for a walk through the silver birches of Sutton Park. So, I'm off....if anyone wants an update, I can be PM'd.
Ta ta and thank you so very much to all those who have made wonderful comments on their own feelings and experiences, I've really enjoyed reading and learning from them....and I'm still laughing about all those 'R's in Gloucestershire!
As for uni education, I've been clear on that and I do feel that if you're British and can prove a definite intention to remain settled in the UK, then you should be able to access UK education at less cost than someone who has no heritage or ties to the UK...which currently is not the case.
Benefits....it was purely an exercise to establish exactly what assistance is available as a safety net 'should' things go pear shape initially. These are difficult and unpredictable times. I see nothing wrong in accessing services temporarily when needed. We discovered we wouldn't be eligible for anything and you won't have heard me whinging about that either. The visit was also to establish what rules are in place regarding us returning, what we need to do upon return and whether we need to specifically tell anyone 'Honey, we're home'! I was told the Job Centre is now where you go to access all information regarding health, tax, pension etc. which is why I went there.
I'm just tired of the personal jibes and attacks for what I thought would be a gentle ramble on our take on the UK. I really thought after a hicough that the vitriole was over....and I'm asked what 'my' agenda is!
Well, the rain has stopped and the mist is clearing, I've a heap of people to see today and I feel the need for a walk through the silver birches of Sutton Park. So, I'm off....if anyone wants an update, I can be PM'd.
Ta ta and thank you so very much to all those who have made wonderful comments on their own feelings and experiences, I've really enjoyed reading and learning from them....and I'm still laughing about all those 'R's in Gloucestershire!
CHEERS I.G.
Dec 14th 2008, 10:54 am
#562
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Canberra
Posts: 899
Re: Just returned to UK to film for TV prog....initial thoughts
DH is already back, we leave for Oz mid Jan. Then we talk, discuss, agonize and make our final decision.
Hubbies comments on arriving back was 'so lovely to be back in a big home with space and light, but going down the shops he was struck by robotic-like people, smiling, moving but not really connecting. He essentially summed it up as 'back to bland'.
One thing that's struck me here is how much time people spend chatting on the phone or popping round for a cuppa here in the UK....I'd be in my element.
On the underclass thing. I have to say that whilst it seems that there is indeed a massive number of, and let's call them the 'underclass' so we know who we're talking about, over here in the UK (looked to be about 90% of those shopping yesterday!) I could honestly say that there'd be a large proportion of them that I could happily spend a night down the pub with. In Oz, when I've been around the Australian version, I've found it damn hard work trying to coax any conversation out of them which has left us feeling frustrated.
The UK version may have adopted a certain code of dress and lifestyle but they're still sparky and interesting. I've met this type in the outback in Oz, it seems you need to live with a bit of hardship and extreme or different experiences to really hone a personality. I feel I've lost some of mine along the way - hard to describe, but I've always felt you have to kind of draw your horns in a bit in Oz, to tone yourself down and be careful what you say. Taking the piss out of someone as a means of humour doesn't go down too well in Oz...now in Brum it comes as easy as breathing!
I think I've said it before, but the UK seems to offer an incredible diversity of people and experiences. It's not neat, it's not always lovely, but you'll never be bored.
Hubbies comments on arriving back was 'so lovely to be back in a big home with space and light, but going down the shops he was struck by robotic-like people, smiling, moving but not really connecting. He essentially summed it up as 'back to bland'.
One thing that's struck me here is how much time people spend chatting on the phone or popping round for a cuppa here in the UK....I'd be in my element.
On the underclass thing. I have to say that whilst it seems that there is indeed a massive number of, and let's call them the 'underclass' so we know who we're talking about, over here in the UK (looked to be about 90% of those shopping yesterday!) I could honestly say that there'd be a large proportion of them that I could happily spend a night down the pub with. In Oz, when I've been around the Australian version, I've found it damn hard work trying to coax any conversation out of them which has left us feeling frustrated.
The UK version may have adopted a certain code of dress and lifestyle but they're still sparky and interesting. I've met this type in the outback in Oz, it seems you need to live with a bit of hardship and extreme or different experiences to really hone a personality. I feel I've lost some of mine along the way - hard to describe, but I've always felt you have to kind of draw your horns in a bit in Oz, to tone yourself down and be careful what you say. Taking the piss out of someone as a means of humour doesn't go down too well in Oz...now in Brum it comes as easy as breathing!
I think I've said it before, but the UK seems to offer an incredible diversity of people and experiences. It's not neat, it's not always lovely, but you'll never be bored.
I'm surprised you find Australia so different to England. I have always thought that this trait is an anglo saxon (for want of a better word) thing. I generally find the English to also be quite emotionally repressed - certainly the French and Italians think they are. A good indicator of emotional repression is the prevalence of binge drinking. Getting plastered allows otherwise emotionally repressed people to become totally uninhibited. It's compensatory behaviour. Binge drinking is a significant problem in both Britain and Australia. Perhaps the chats and the banter are also a bit superficial? Perhaps it's partly a regional thing? I'm not sure it's fair to compare a regional area of Britain with upper middle class Sydney.
I've lived more than half my life in a variety of other countries. I found the southern Europeans to be more in touch with their emotions - no surprise there I guess. When I lived in France and Quebec, I found it was easier to relate to people on a deeper level. When you talk to a French person they easily become opinionated, passionate and animated. Emotion is not seen as being incompatible with reason as it is the Anglo Saxon world.
Dec 14th 2008, 10:55 am
#563
itchy feet again!
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ex-Canada: now rural West Sussex.
Posts: 1,013
Re: Just returned to UK to film for TV prog....initial thoughts
Agenda? Not everyone has an 'agenda' on these boards.
As for uni education, I've been clear on that and I do feel that if you're British and can prove a definite intention to remain settled in the UK, then you should be able to access UK education at less cost than someone who has no heritage or ties to the UK...which currently is not the case.
Benefits....it was purely an exercise to establish exactly what assistance is available as a safety net 'should' things go pear shape initially. These are difficult and unpredictable times. I see nothing wrong in accessing services temporarily when needed. We discovered we wouldn't be eligible for anything and you won't have heard me whinging about that either. The visit was also to establish what rules are in place regarding us returning, what we need to do upon return and whether we need to specifically tell anyone 'Honey, we're home'! I was told the Job Centre is now where you go to access all information regarding health, tax, pension etc. which is why I went there.
I'm just tired of the personal jibes and attacks for what I thought would be a gentle ramble on our take on the UK. I really thought after a hicough that the vitriole was over....and I'm asked what 'my' agenda is!
Well, the rain has stopped and the mist is clearing, I've a heap of people to see today and I feel the need for a walk through the silver birches of Sutton Park. So, I'm off....if anyone wants an update, I can be PM'd.
Ta ta and thank you so very much to all those who have made wonderful comments on their own feelings and experiences, I've really enjoyed reading and learning from them....and I'm still laughing about all those 'R's in Gloucestershire!
As for uni education, I've been clear on that and I do feel that if you're British and can prove a definite intention to remain settled in the UK, then you should be able to access UK education at less cost than someone who has no heritage or ties to the UK...which currently is not the case.
Benefits....it was purely an exercise to establish exactly what assistance is available as a safety net 'should' things go pear shape initially. These are difficult and unpredictable times. I see nothing wrong in accessing services temporarily when needed. We discovered we wouldn't be eligible for anything and you won't have heard me whinging about that either. The visit was also to establish what rules are in place regarding us returning, what we need to do upon return and whether we need to specifically tell anyone 'Honey, we're home'! I was told the Job Centre is now where you go to access all information regarding health, tax, pension etc. which is why I went there.
I'm just tired of the personal jibes and attacks for what I thought would be a gentle ramble on our take on the UK. I really thought after a hicough that the vitriole was over....and I'm asked what 'my' agenda is!
Well, the rain has stopped and the mist is clearing, I've a heap of people to see today and I feel the need for a walk through the silver birches of Sutton Park. So, I'm off....if anyone wants an update, I can be PM'd.
Ta ta and thank you so very much to all those who have made wonderful comments on their own feelings and experiences, I've really enjoyed reading and learning from them....and I'm still laughing about all those 'R's in Gloucestershire!
Dec 14th 2008, 10:58 am
#564
Weirdo Latin Dude
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Hotter than hell
Posts: 2,545
Re: An interesting day at the shopping centre!
It depends how you define the term 'chav'. If the suggestion that all people who receive benefits are chavs or all single mothers are chavs, then that would be wrong. If all bad parents were regarded as chavs that would be wrong too because while some parents are bad, some are ineffective because of the situation they find themselves in. For example, I grew up the eldest of 6 children and because my parents struggled to find work, I was kept off school to look after younger brothers and sisters while they looked for work. When they didn't have work, they claimed benefits so I was a child of unemployed parents who at some stages of my childhood was brought up on benefits. I left school with no qualifications (because i was never there) and i was bullied at school by both the pupils and the teachers because my parents hence my whole family were branded as the 'underclass'.
I owned my first house at 18 and by 25 I owned 2 houses. I had my daughter at 23 after being married 5 years then i had my son at 25. I ran a business when they were babies and I have never claimed benefits other than family allowance to which i was entitled.
Today I own a successful company and I am also a writer on several subjects. I made money early in life by sheer hard work and renovating property. My parents still live in a council house but I never have. Both my children have good jobs, they've never been in trouble and they are well respected members of the community as am I. All my life I have contributed to and won awards for services to the community, notably children's causes.
My father was a lazy, violent drunken bully who broke my mothers arms in front of us. He rarely worked and in my mothers generation, there were no safe houses or domestic violence units.
The thing I remember most about my childhood was not the deprivation in the home, it was label I was given by people who placed themselves in the position of judging my situation by how it looked to them. By todays standards, we would have been called chavs. I have come to realise that this labelling upon some parts of society is mostly formed through ignorance and fear by those who have their own insecurities and inadquacies but are in denial about facing upto them.
The UK may have it's social problems but I do not believe they are as great in number as they are being presented. It is common for some to suggest that this is the greatest problem facing the UK and that chavs, single mothers, those receiving benefits are the main cause of the social breakdown that Britain is experiencing. But Britain has other problems. It is now close to leading the world in obesity. What's the difference between a 'chav' who contributes nothing but takes the money from the taxpayer and the person who takes no responsibility towards caring for their health, yet expects to be given immediate NHS treatment when health problems occur at no expense to them yet it costs the taxpayer far more annually to fund the NHS's growing problem of treating obesity than it costs to fund those receiving benefits? If I was going to be worried about any aspect of returning to the UK, it would be on health grounds.
The difference is personal accountability and responsibility. I took responsibility for myself at a young age and the only reason I could was because I had a handful of good influences in my young life who did the opposite of writing me off at a critical age. If most of the kids who are currently being born to 'chavs' today, had the same kind of input instead of being labelled and made to feel guilty because of their parents, maybe some of Britains social ills could start to turn around.
I owned my first house at 18 and by 25 I owned 2 houses. I had my daughter at 23 after being married 5 years then i had my son at 25. I ran a business when they were babies and I have never claimed benefits other than family allowance to which i was entitled.
Today I own a successful company and I am also a writer on several subjects. I made money early in life by sheer hard work and renovating property. My parents still live in a council house but I never have. Both my children have good jobs, they've never been in trouble and they are well respected members of the community as am I. All my life I have contributed to and won awards for services to the community, notably children's causes.
My father was a lazy, violent drunken bully who broke my mothers arms in front of us. He rarely worked and in my mothers generation, there were no safe houses or domestic violence units.
The thing I remember most about my childhood was not the deprivation in the home, it was label I was given by people who placed themselves in the position of judging my situation by how it looked to them. By todays standards, we would have been called chavs. I have come to realise that this labelling upon some parts of society is mostly formed through ignorance and fear by those who have their own insecurities and inadquacies but are in denial about facing upto them.
The UK may have it's social problems but I do not believe they are as great in number as they are being presented. It is common for some to suggest that this is the greatest problem facing the UK and that chavs, single mothers, those receiving benefits are the main cause of the social breakdown that Britain is experiencing. But Britain has other problems. It is now close to leading the world in obesity. What's the difference between a 'chav' who contributes nothing but takes the money from the taxpayer and the person who takes no responsibility towards caring for their health, yet expects to be given immediate NHS treatment when health problems occur at no expense to them yet it costs the taxpayer far more annually to fund the NHS's growing problem of treating obesity than it costs to fund those receiving benefits? If I was going to be worried about any aspect of returning to the UK, it would be on health grounds.
The difference is personal accountability and responsibility. I took responsibility for myself at a young age and the only reason I could was because I had a handful of good influences in my young life who did the opposite of writing me off at a critical age. If most of the kids who are currently being born to 'chavs' today, had the same kind of input instead of being labelled and made to feel guilty because of their parents, maybe some of Britains social ills could start to turn around.
Dec 14th 2008, 11:01 am
#565
Bitter and twisted
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Upmarket
Posts: 17,503
Re: Just returned to UK to film for TV prog....initial thoughts
If someone is going to make insulting generalisations about a country or indeed a whole class of people then they must expect to be asked to explain or justify what they say.
Try making similar remarks about Australia on the barbie and see how understanding people on there would be.
Dec 14th 2008, 11:10 am
#567
Weirdo Latin Dude
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Hotter than hell
Posts: 2,545
Re: Just returned to UK to film for TV prog....initial thoughts
Ezzie, I'm interested in your comment about Australians not really connecting, although calling them "robotic" might be a bit harsh. I find Australians are quite shy in a way that makes them try to hide their emotions - showing your emotions is a sign of weakness. The friendliness is sometimes just a way of masking how you really feel - e.g. I feel like crap but I don't want you to know because you will think I'm weak so I will put on a cheesy grin and say "no worries mate, see ya later".
I'm surprised you find Australia so different to England. I have always thought that this trait is an anglo saxon (for want of a better word) thing. I generally find the English to also be quite emotionally repressed - certainly the French and Italians think they are. A good indicator of emotional repression is the prevalence of binge drinking. Getting plastered allows otherwise emotionally repressed people to become totally uninhibited. It's compensatory behaviour. Binge drinking is a significant problem in both Britain and Australia. Perhaps the chats and the banter are also a bit superficial? Perhaps it's partly a regional thing? I'm not sure it's fair to compare a regional area of Britain with upper middle class Sydney.
I've lived more than half my life in a variety of other countries. I found the southern Europeans to be more in touch with their emotions - no surprise there I guess. When I lived in France and Quebec, I found it was easier to relate to people on a deeper level. When you talk to a French person they easily become opinionated, passionate and animated. Emotion is not seen as being incompatible with reason as it is the Anglo Saxon world.
I'm surprised you find Australia so different to England. I have always thought that this trait is an anglo saxon (for want of a better word) thing. I generally find the English to also be quite emotionally repressed - certainly the French and Italians think they are. A good indicator of emotional repression is the prevalence of binge drinking. Getting plastered allows otherwise emotionally repressed people to become totally uninhibited. It's compensatory behaviour. Binge drinking is a significant problem in both Britain and Australia. Perhaps the chats and the banter are also a bit superficial? Perhaps it's partly a regional thing? I'm not sure it's fair to compare a regional area of Britain with upper middle class Sydney.
I've lived more than half my life in a variety of other countries. I found the southern Europeans to be more in touch with their emotions - no surprise there I guess. When I lived in France and Quebec, I found it was easier to relate to people on a deeper level. When you talk to a French person they easily become opinionated, passionate and animated. Emotion is not seen as being incompatible with reason as it is the Anglo Saxon world.
The superficial comments and topics of conversation that exist on a Friday and Saturday night down the pub in the UK with a macho bunch of males, is probably one of the most brain numbing activities that a human being can undertake.
Dec 14th 2008, 11:36 am
#568
Banned
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,769
Re: An interesting day at the shopping centre!
To be honest the term chav was something that I hadn`t heard until I came onto this forum. As for negative remarks concerning the underclasses these remarks are just aimed at the troublesome element NOT everybody from that background. Obesity is very much a global problem anyway and to actually compare the chavs that bleed the system to people that are obese etc and require treatment is a strange and incorrect comparison. The chavs knowingly bleed the system instead of working this is what they do. If they can get away with it, then I suppose its the fault of the NHS for not tracking them down. In many cases obese people become obese not from choice but from a myriad of reasons. Do you think obese or over weight children are to blame for their condition? Todays social pressures and ills lead people into all types of creature comforts to confront their depressed lives etc of which eating the wrong foods, smoking and drinking etc are just part of. If these people become ill and need treatment for their conditions should they be blamed? Denied? compared to the chavs that drain the system? The NHS system and similiar systems are what seperate a civilised society from the cold hearted situation that exists in the USA.
So chavs don't suffer from depression? I don't know about the UK, i'm not there but in Queensland there are no statistics confirming that 65% of the population suffer from depression.
Dec 14th 2008, 11:42 am
#569
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,145
Re: Just returned to UK to film for TV prog....initial thoughts
So, I'm off....if anyone wants an update, I can be PM'd.
Ta ta and thank you so very much to all those who have made wonderful comments on their own feelings and experiences, I've really enjoyed reading and learning from them....and I'm still laughing about all those 'R's in Gloucestershire!
Ta ta and thank you so very much to all those who have made wonderful comments on their own feelings and experiences, I've really enjoyed reading and learning from them....and I'm still laughing about all those 'R's in Gloucestershire!
Dec 14th 2008, 12:01 pm
#570
Weirdo Latin Dude
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Hotter than hell
Posts: 2,545
Re: An interesting day at the shopping centre!
But then again chavs will suffer from depression like anybody else. Point being though, that its very easy to judge an obese person as you have done. The reality is though, that their lives and situations are far more complex than you have given them credit for and to suggest that they are a drain on the NHS system is ludricous. Its like saying that somebody that has worked in a factory or in a mine and due to their harmful environment develops cancer, Should they be denied as well as they probably knew the risk from working there? Obesity is an illness and should be treated as such. Personally if I was UK based I`d rather my contributions went to the treatment or help of say a depressed, ill or obese person than to your average chav.