most overrated European destinations
Sep 19th 2002 | 4:32 am
#91
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> "Tim Challenger" wrote:
> >It was meant as a joke.
> The problem with joking in this group is that your intent is likely to
> be misunderstood.
Especially if it's not particularly funny.
Barbara
> "Tim Challenger" wrote:
> >It was meant as a joke.
> The problem with joking in this group is that your intent is likely to
> be misunderstood.
Especially if it's not particularly funny.
Barbara
Sep 19th 2002 | 4:54 am
#92
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
Tim Challenger wrote:
> > > I'd never attend a mass in order to visit a church. I'm not a
> > > Christian!
> >
> >
> > You wouldn't be hurted either
> No, but you'd be stuck in the place for the duration of the service -
> whereas you can leave any time you want once you've queued up to get in. I
> suppose the total amount of time would be about the same.
The quality of time would be fundamentally different. In the first case
you would have a full hour free from your ordinary problems, trying to
tune to different timeframes and mindsets. In the second case, you would
have been queuing one hour, a thing most people hates anyway.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
> > > I'd never attend a mass in order to visit a church. I'm not a
> > > Christian!
> >
> >
> > You wouldn't be hurted either
> No, but you'd be stuck in the place for the duration of the service -
> whereas you can leave any time you want once you've queued up to get in. I
> suppose the total amount of time would be about the same.
The quality of time would be fundamentally different. In the first case
you would have a full hour free from your ordinary problems, trying to
tune to different timeframes and mindsets. In the second case, you would
have been queuing one hour, a thing most people hates anyway.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Sep 19th 2002 | 4:54 am
#93
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
hamilton wrote:
> except for the terminal boredom -- if there is anything more boring than a
> Catholic sermon, it is a sermon in a language you don't fully understand
I don't agree. If you don't understand the language at all, you are shut
out. But if you understand it a bit, even less than fully, this is one
of the few places where you can hear the language for long stretches and
practise your understanding abilities. I read somewhere that Russian
diplomats in New York and Washington were at times encouraged to attend
religious services as a way a learning English (don't ask me if it is
true).
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
> except for the terminal boredom -- if there is anything more boring than a
> Catholic sermon, it is a sermon in a language you don't fully understand
I don't agree. If you don't understand the language at all, you are shut
out. But if you understand it a bit, even less than fully, this is one
of the few places where you can hear the language for long stretches and
practise your understanding abilities. I read somewhere that Russian
diplomats in New York and Washington were at times encouraged to attend
religious services as a way a learning English (don't ask me if it is
true).
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Sep 19th 2002 | 4:54 am
#94
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
hamilton wrote:
> LOL of course -- my husband has drug me to mass all over Europe and it is
> an excellent way to see the churches --- and frankly the Duomo is not
> worth waiting in line for -- given the many more interesting churches in
> Florence -- e.g. Santa Maria del Carmine, St. Maria Novella, Santa Croce
> etc etc etc
I was told that the most interesting Mass in Florence is main service in
S. Miniato, but I cannot check as at the same time I am busy playing
organ in the tiny S.Lucia sul Prato church (and that makes that Mass the
second most interesting one, of course :-) ).
Interesting things may happen to people that devote their weekly hour to
Mass even when travelling. For example, my wife and me spend ten days
every year in a small village near Innsbruck. By attending two Masses
there every year, we have befriended the music instructor, the parish
priest, the people in the village remember us from one year to the
following ones, ladies offer flowers to my wife on the Assumption
festivity, etc. - and of course the Sunday 9.00 at Franziskanerkirche in
Salzburg with choir and orchestra is a story in itself.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
> LOL of course -- my husband has drug me to mass all over Europe and it is
> an excellent way to see the churches --- and frankly the Duomo is not
> worth waiting in line for -- given the many more interesting churches in
> Florence -- e.g. Santa Maria del Carmine, St. Maria Novella, Santa Croce
> etc etc etc
I was told that the most interesting Mass in Florence is main service in
S. Miniato, but I cannot check as at the same time I am busy playing
organ in the tiny S.Lucia sul Prato church (and that makes that Mass the
second most interesting one, of course :-) ).
Interesting things may happen to people that devote their weekly hour to
Mass even when travelling. For example, my wife and me spend ten days
every year in a small village near Innsbruck. By attending two Masses
there every year, we have befriended the music instructor, the parish
priest, the people in the village remember us from one year to the
following ones, ladies offer flowers to my wife on the Assumption
festivity, etc. - and of course the Sunday 9.00 at Franziskanerkirche in
Salzburg with choir and orchestra is a story in itself.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Sep 19th 2002 | 5:33 am
#95
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
In article ,
[email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:
> hamilton wrote:
> > LOL of course -- my husband has drug me to mass all over Europe and it is
> > an excellent way to see the churches --- and frankly the Duomo is not
> > worth waiting in line for -- given the many more interesting churches in
> > Florence -- e.g. Santa Maria del Carmine, St. Maria Novella, Santa Croce
> > etc etc etc
> I was told that the most interesting Mass in Florence is main service in
> S. Miniato,
Havent been to Mass, but well worth the walk regardless. After the walk
there... try and say Florence isnt a great tourist destination.
jay
Thu, Sep 19, 2002
mailto:[email protected]
but I cannot check as at the same time I am busy playing
> organ in the tiny S.Lucia sul Prato church (and that makes that Mass the
> second most interesting one, of course :-) ).
> Interesting things may happen to people that devote their weekly hour to
> Mass even when travelling. For example, my wife and me spend ten days
> every year in a small village near Innsbruck. By attending two Masses
> there every year, we have befriended the music instructor, the parish
> priest, the people in the village remember us from one year to the
> following ones, ladies offer flowers to my wife on the Assumption
> festivity, etc. - and of course the Sunday 9.00 at Franziskanerkirche in
> Salzburg with choir and orchestra is a story in itself.
> -- -----------------------------------------------------
> Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
[email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:
> hamilton wrote:
> > LOL of course -- my husband has drug me to mass all over Europe and it is
> > an excellent way to see the churches --- and frankly the Duomo is not
> > worth waiting in line for -- given the many more interesting churches in
> > Florence -- e.g. Santa Maria del Carmine, St. Maria Novella, Santa Croce
> > etc etc etc
> I was told that the most interesting Mass in Florence is main service in
> S. Miniato,
Havent been to Mass, but well worth the walk regardless. After the walk
there... try and say Florence isnt a great tourist destination.
jay
Thu, Sep 19, 2002
mailto:[email protected]
but I cannot check as at the same time I am busy playing
> organ in the tiny S.Lucia sul Prato church (and that makes that Mass the
> second most interesting one, of course :-) ).
> Interesting things may happen to people that devote their weekly hour to
> Mass even when travelling. For example, my wife and me spend ten days
> every year in a small village near Innsbruck. By attending two Masses
> there every year, we have befriended the music instructor, the parish
> priest, the people in the village remember us from one year to the
> following ones, ladies offer flowers to my wife on the Assumption
> festivity, etc. - and of course the Sunday 9.00 at Franziskanerkirche in
> Salzburg with choir and orchestra is a story in itself.
> -- -----------------------------------------------------
> Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Sep 19th 2002 | 6:40 am
#96
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
Luca Logi wrote:
> Interesting things may happen to people that devote their weekly hour to
> Mass even when travelling. For example, my wife and me spend ten days
> every year in a small village near Innsbruck. By attending two Masses
> there every year, we have befriended the music instructor, the parish
> priest, the people in the village remember us from one year to the
> following ones, ladies offer flowers to my wife on the Assumption
> festivity, etc. - and of course the Sunday 9.00 at Franziskanerkirche in
> Salzburg with choir and orchestra is a story in itself.
I agree, and not only Catholic masses, but other religious services. We
once went to a church service in Honolulu when I was working there for a
month. We got a welcome from the congregation that astonished us, even
though we had already experienced the friendly welcome of Hawaiian
people. We were invited to come to the front of the church after the
service and introduce ourselves to the congregation. Then they gave us
leis to wear and invited us to lunch.
We had gone there because we had heard that the choir sang hymns with
traditional Hawaiian tunes, and this was true and also well worth
hearing. Also the prayers were recited in both English and the Hawaiian
language.
I always like to attend religious services when I am on vacation. I am
Anglican, and I usually don't find an Anglican church in most countries,
but I attend whatever church I find.
Barbara
> Interesting things may happen to people that devote their weekly hour to
> Mass even when travelling. For example, my wife and me spend ten days
> every year in a small village near Innsbruck. By attending two Masses
> there every year, we have befriended the music instructor, the parish
> priest, the people in the village remember us from one year to the
> following ones, ladies offer flowers to my wife on the Assumption
> festivity, etc. - and of course the Sunday 9.00 at Franziskanerkirche in
> Salzburg with choir and orchestra is a story in itself.
I agree, and not only Catholic masses, but other religious services. We
once went to a church service in Honolulu when I was working there for a
month. We got a welcome from the congregation that astonished us, even
though we had already experienced the friendly welcome of Hawaiian
people. We were invited to come to the front of the church after the
service and introduce ourselves to the congregation. Then they gave us
leis to wear and invited us to lunch.
We had gone there because we had heard that the choir sang hymns with
traditional Hawaiian tunes, and this was true and also well worth
hearing. Also the prayers were recited in both English and the Hawaiian
language.
I always like to attend religious services when I am on vacation. I am
Anglican, and I usually don't find an Anglican church in most countries,
but I attend whatever church I find.
Barbara
Sep 19th 2002 | 10:14 am
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
Luca Logi wrote:
> Tim Challenger wrote:
>> No, but you'd be stuck in the place for the duration of the service -
>> whereas you can leave any time you want once you've queued up to get in. I
>> suppose the total amount of time would be about the same.
> The quality of time would be fundamentally different. In the first case
> you would have a full hour free from your ordinary problems, trying to
> tune to different timeframes and mindsets. In the second case, you would
> have been queuing one hour, a thing most people hates anyway.
I'd take the queue over the quiet sitting any day of the week. In the queue
I can shift position, talk with people around me, take a break to get
something to eat, stretch, fidget, get bored and walk away, etc.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
> Tim Challenger wrote:
>> No, but you'd be stuck in the place for the duration of the service -
>> whereas you can leave any time you want once you've queued up to get in. I
>> suppose the total amount of time would be about the same.
> The quality of time would be fundamentally different. In the first case
> you would have a full hour free from your ordinary problems, trying to
> tune to different timeframes and mindsets. In the second case, you would
> have been queuing one hour, a thing most people hates anyway.
I'd take the queue over the quiet sitting any day of the week. In the queue
I can shift position, talk with people around me, take a break to get
something to eat, stretch, fidget, get bored and walk away, etc.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
Sep 19th 2002 | 11:26 am
#98
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
> Douglas H: How about Cap Ferrat?
I can't think of anything it rhymes with.
I can't think of anything it rhymes with.
Sep 19th 2002 | 2:21 pm
#99
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
[email protected] (Miguel=A0Cruz) wrote:
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>>"Tim Challenger"
>>[email protected]
>>wrote:
>>>It was meant as a joke.
>>The problem with joking in this group is
>>that your intent is likely to be
>>misunderstood.
>That's what makes it fun.
It is puzzling, though, that people who enjoy travel, often don't
appreciate the occasional serendipity of humor in a post.
Of course, when _any_ joke has to explained, it doesn't matter whether
there was objective humor to begin with.
Kara -
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>>"Tim Challenger"
>>[email protected]
>>wrote:
>>>It was meant as a joke.
>>The problem with joking in this group is
>>that your intent is likely to be
>>misunderstood.
>That's what makes it fun.
It is puzzling, though, that people who enjoy travel, often don't
appreciate the occasional serendipity of humor in a post.
Of course, when _any_ joke has to explained, it doesn't matter whether
there was objective humor to begin with.
Kara -
Sep 19th 2002 | 3:29 pm
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
Kara wrote:
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>> The problem with joking in this group is that your intent is likely to
>>> be misunderstood.
>> That's what makes it fun.
> It is puzzling, though, that people who enjoy travel, often don't
> appreciate the occasional serendipity of humor in a post.
Seems like there some people who don't appreciate serendipity in travel
either ("Can anyone advise me on this itinerary? I am coming to Europe in
October 2005 at 9:22am and I have planned out 21 sights per day at precise
42-minute intervals.")
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>> The problem with joking in this group is that your intent is likely to
>>> be misunderstood.
>> That's what makes it fun.
> It is puzzling, though, that people who enjoy travel, often don't
> appreciate the occasional serendipity of humor in a post.
Seems like there some people who don't appreciate serendipity in travel
either ("Can anyone advise me on this itinerary? I am coming to Europe in
October 2005 at 9:22am and I have planned out 21 sights per day at precise
42-minute intervals.")
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
Sep 19th 2002 | 6:13 pm
#101
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Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:01:37 GMT, [email protected] (Hatunen) wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 06:16:38 GMT, [email protected] (Pan) wrote:
>>On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:40:15 +0200, [email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:
>>>Pan wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately, no such reservation system exists for the Duomo or
>>>> Baptistery, I would think. I'm glad I saw their insides in 1991 and
>>>> 1994. I may never see them again.
>>>It is extremely simple to see the Duomo without queueing: you simply
>>>attend a Mass (there is an entrance for worshippers on the right side).
>>>Of course I give you this advice in the hope nobody will cheat, just to
>>>remember that a Cathedral isn't a museum...
>>I'd never attend a mass in order to visit a church. I'm not a
>>Christian!
>Why not? I'm not Catholic, but I'e attended services;
By invitation? I have, too. And I've _performed_ at services as a
hired musician. I've also been to funerals and weddings as a guest.
But I do _not_ go to a mass without having a good, valid reason.
> I'm not Muslim,
> but I've visited a mosque while a service was going on.
I haven't, and many mosques won't let non-praying visitors in when
services are going on.
You see, I respect the sensibilities of adherents of other religions.
I'm one of those folks who takes the "Do not circulate during prayer"
signs seriously when I visit a church while a mass is going on, and I
insisted that my family refrain from entering a church while a funeral
was going on, out of respect for the mourners.
Michael
>On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 06:16:38 GMT, [email protected] (Pan) wrote:
>>On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:40:15 +0200, [email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:
>>>Pan wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately, no such reservation system exists for the Duomo or
>>>> Baptistery, I would think. I'm glad I saw their insides in 1991 and
>>>> 1994. I may never see them again.
>>>It is extremely simple to see the Duomo without queueing: you simply
>>>attend a Mass (there is an entrance for worshippers on the right side).
>>>Of course I give you this advice in the hope nobody will cheat, just to
>>>remember that a Cathedral isn't a museum...
>>I'd never attend a mass in order to visit a church. I'm not a
>>Christian!
>Why not? I'm not Catholic, but I'e attended services;
By invitation? I have, too. And I've _performed_ at services as a
hired musician. I've also been to funerals and weddings as a guest.
But I do _not_ go to a mass without having a good, valid reason.
> I'm not Muslim,
> but I've visited a mosque while a service was going on.
I haven't, and many mosques won't let non-praying visitors in when
services are going on.
You see, I respect the sensibilities of adherents of other religions.
I'm one of those folks who takes the "Do not circulate during prayer"
signs seriously when I visit a church while a mass is going on, and I
insisted that my family refrain from entering a church while a funeral
was going on, out of respect for the mourners.
Michael
Sep 19th 2002 | 6:19 pm
#102
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:05:56 -0500, [email protected] (hamilton)
wrote:
>In article , [email protected] (Pan)
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:01:21 +0200, [email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:
>> >You wouldn't be hurted either
>> You mean wounded? [LOL!]
>except for the terminal boredom -- if there is anything more boring than a
>Catholic sermon, it is a sermon in a language you don't fully understand
Catholic priests are taught to speak very clearly. I visited the
cathedral of Santiago de Compostela on a Sunday and a mass started
when I was still there. I heard part of the sermon by the priest, and
though my Spanish is not that great, I understood enough of what he
said to get the gist of it completely. My French is much better,
though not fluent, and I had no trouble getting the message of the
part of a sermon that I heard when I stuck my head into a church in, I
think, Orleans this summer.
Michael
wrote:
>In article , [email protected] (Pan)
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:01:21 +0200, [email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:
>> >You wouldn't be hurted either
>> You mean wounded? [LOL!]
>except for the terminal boredom -- if there is anything more boring than a
>Catholic sermon, it is a sermon in a language you don't fully understand
Catholic priests are taught to speak very clearly. I visited the
cathedral of Santiago de Compostela on a Sunday and a mass started
when I was still there. I heard part of the sermon by the priest, and
though my Spanish is not that great, I understood enough of what he
said to get the gist of it completely. My French is much better,
though not fluent, and I had no trouble getting the message of the
part of a sermon that I heard when I stuck my head into a church in, I
think, Orleans this summer.
Michael
Sep 19th 2002 | 6:47 pm
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
Go Fig wrote:
> > I was told that the most interesting Mass in Florence is main service in
> > S. Miniato,
> Havent been to Mass, but well worth the walk regardless. After the walk
> there... try and say Florence isnt a great tourist destination.
Florence as a city has big problems, mainly that its structure doesn't
really fit to modern life. But the surrounding hills are so beautiful -
a thing that gets lost to most tourist that have no time to go around -
and let us be frank, if you don't have some contact somewhere there is
little reason to go around.
S. Miniato has a wide panorama. I found that the panorama in the little
rose garden, adjoing to piazzale Michelangelo, even if narrower is as
breathtaking (especially going there in May when roses are at their
best).
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
> > I was told that the most interesting Mass in Florence is main service in
> > S. Miniato,
> Havent been to Mass, but well worth the walk regardless. After the walk
> there... try and say Florence isnt a great tourist destination.
Florence as a city has big problems, mainly that its structure doesn't
really fit to modern life. But the surrounding hills are so beautiful -
a thing that gets lost to most tourist that have no time to go around -
and let us be frank, if you don't have some contact somewhere there is
little reason to go around.
S. Miniato has a wide panorama. I found that the panorama in the little
rose garden, adjoing to piazzale Michelangelo, even if narrower is as
breathtaking (especially going there in May when roses are at their
best).
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Sep 19th 2002 | 8:12 pm
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
Miguel Cruz wrote in message
news:4Cwi9.18720$t%6.11436@nw-
rddc02.gnilink.net...
> Seems like there some people who don't appreciate serendipity in travel
> either ("Can anyone advise me on this itinerary? I am coming to Europe in
> October 2005 at 9:22am and I have planned out 21 sights per day at precise
> 42-minute intervals.")
Better, surely, than the serendipity of:
"I'm going to south-east Knucklestan for a month. What should I look at?"
Surreyman
news:4Cwi9.18720$t%6.11436@nw-
rddc02.gnilink.net...
> Seems like there some people who don't appreciate serendipity in travel
> either ("Can anyone advise me on this itinerary? I am coming to Europe in
> October 2005 at 9:22am and I have planned out 21 sights per day at precise
> 42-minute intervals.")
Better, surely, than the serendipity of:
"I'm going to south-east Knucklestan for a month. What should I look at?"
Surreyman
Sep 19th 2002 | 8:15 pm
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: most overrated European destinations
Luca Logi wrote in message
news:1firquc.k1esnf1ny3xswN%llogi@d-
ada.it...
trying to
> tune to different timeframes and mindsets.
And I thought English was my native language ...
Surreyman
news:1firquc.k1esnf1ny3xswN%llogi@d-
ada.it...
trying to
> tune to different timeframes and mindsets.
And I thought English was my native language ...
Surreyman
