Or underwhelming::

1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)

"Douglas W. Hoyt" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]
m...
    > Or underwhelming::
    > 1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
Yes indeed , Quedlinburg outcompetes as a medieval town
    > 2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
Pehaps but still a good atmosphere and nice people.
    > 3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
Yes, there was some magic in the divided city. You knew east-west forces
were some hundred meters from each other. A very low crime level and a very
good personal atmosphere have got lost with the new buildings and
administration.
    > 4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
bad air, crowds and traffic congestions that's it
    > 5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)
Not a city but a number of urbanizations, as LA, expensive yes not at least
the hotels.
L.P

In article <[email protected]>, "Lennart Petersen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Douglas W. Hoyt" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:[email protected]
    >     ...
    > > Or underwhelming::
    > >
    > > 1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
    > Yes indeed , Quedlinburg outcompetes as a medieval town
    > > 2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
    > Pehaps but still a good atmosphere and nice people.
    > > 3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
    > Yes, there was some magic in the divided city. You knew east-west forces
    > were some hundred meters from each other. A very low crime level and a very
    > good personal atmosphere have got lost with the new buildings and
    > administration.
    > > 4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
    > bad air, crowds and traffic congestions that's it
    > > 5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)
    > Not a city but a number of urbanizations, as LA, expensive yes not at least
    > the hotels.

Paris is still among the most beautiful big cities in the world -- in fact
I can't think of a city more beautiful. There are some LOCATIONS more
beautiful e.g. Vancouver comes to mind and San FRancisco --- but as a city
with an amazing amount of integrity, Paris is hard to beat.

"hamilton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ham-
[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Lennart Petersen"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > "Douglas W. Hoyt" <[email protected]> skrev i
meddelandet
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > om    ...
    > > > Or underwhelming::
    > > >
    > > > 1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
    > > Yes indeed , Quedlinburg outcompetes as a medieval town
    > > > 2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
    > > Pehaps but still a good atmosphere and nice people.
    > > > 3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
    > > Yes, there was some magic in the divided city. You knew east-west
forces
    > > were some hundred meters from each other. A very low crime level and a
very
    > > good personal atmosphere have got lost with the new buildings and
    > > administration.
    > > > 4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
    > > bad air, crowds and traffic congestions that's it
    > > > 5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)
    > > Not a city but a number of urbanizations, as LA, expensive yes not at
least
    > > the hotels.
    > Paris is still among the most beautiful big cities in the world -- in fact
    > I can't think of a city more beautiful. There are some LOCATIONS more
    > beautiful e.g. Vancouver comes to mind and San FRancisco --- but as a city
    > with an amazing amount of integrity, Paris is hard to beat.

I'm with you.....and Vienna ain't bad either.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:43:21 -0500, "Douglas W. Hoyt"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Or underwhelming::
    >1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
    >2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
    >3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
    >4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
    >5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)

You just don't seem to like big cities. Are there any you like? I note
that Rome didn't make your list.

My first thought of an overrated European destination was St. Paul de
Vence. It was pretty from 1-2 km, but when I got there, I found that
there was nothing there except a medieval little walled town that
looked better from outside and a bunch of shops selling very expensive
things. Considering that I had visited San Gimignano - a beautiful
medieval town with _great things to see_ the previous year - I was
very underwhelmed.

Michael

"Pan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:43:21 -0500, "Douglas W. Hoyt"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Or underwhelming::
    > >
    > >1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
    > >2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
    > >3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
    > >4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
    > >5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)
    > You just don't seem to like big cities. Are there any you like? I note
    > that Rome didn't make your list.
    > My first thought of an overrated European destination was St. Paul de
    > Vence. It was pretty from 1-2 km, but when I got there, I found that
    > there was nothing there except a medieval little walled town that
    > looked better from outside and a bunch of shops selling very expensive
    > things. Considering that I had visited San Gimignano - a beautiful
    > medieval town with _great things to see_ the previous year - I was
    > very underwhelmed.
    > Michael

For me it's Carcassonne, France. I arrived in town in the early evening; I
got to the bridge about a half mile away as the sun was setting and I looked
up at the ancient walled town and thought it was magnificent. I got inside
only to find it was a highly commercialized Disney type theme park. Just
one junk shop and ice cream stand after another.
Ryan

"Douglas W. Hoyt" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]
m...
    > Or underwhelming::
    > 1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
    > 2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
    > 3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
    > 4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
    > 5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)

For me it was definitely Florence. Great museums, but as a city I found it a
dump. Siena, Lucca, Pisa, Volterra are all much nicer.

Sjoerd

On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:30:56 +0200, "Sjoerd"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Douglas W. Hoyt" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    >news:[email protected]
    >    ...
    >> Or underwhelming::
    >> 1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
    >> 2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
    >> 3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
    >> 4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
    >> 5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)
    >For me it was definitely Florence. Great museums

and churches

    >, but as a city I found it a
    >dump. Siena, Lucca, Pisa, Volterra are all much nicer.

Florence is bigger and has more of the usual urban problems of
pollution and grime, but what exactly is overrated about it? Tell me
you didn't like the view from Piazzale Michelangelo.

I'm beginning to see that, especially given the list that started this
thread, every fantastic city in Europe will appear in this thread.
People who don't like big cities should stay away from them and
ameliorate their overcrowding problems.

Best,

Michael

    > > 2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
    > Pehaps but still a good atmosphere and nice people.

You must be the only person that thinks that the Viennese are nice. You're
not one yourself are you ?
Tim.

I have read all the posts to date:

(1) I can't believe your opinion of any of the cities/towns you
mentioned; though it seems a few agreed with you on some.

(2) I thought all you mentioned had much to offer.

(3) Why don't you tell us your 'choice' cities so we get an idea of your
criteria . . . and we will get a chance to 'fight back'. :-)))

(4) Even some of cities others didnt like surprised me.


. . . These are old cities that were not built for tour buses,
thousands of tourists daily. They all have much to offer -- we just have
to overlook the shit on the Paris streets, etc.







The palest ink is better than the best memory. --Chinese proverb
There is no end to collecting books.
--Book of Ecclesiastes
To three possessions shalt thou look: Acquire a field, a friend, a
book.
--Samuel haNagid, Vizier to the King of Granada

Douglas W. Hoyt wrote:

    >Or underwhelming::
    >1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)

ACK

    >2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)

The good thing about Vienna is the lifestyle, not the buildings or
things to see.

    >3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)

It has lost peculiarity, I would say. It became a better place for
the Berliners, though. (I've been living there for a while in the
early eighties.)

    >4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
    >5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)

Living in Munich and in spite of loving beer I would like to add

6) Hofbräuhau Munich

Jens

I second those sentiments!

"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Douglas W. Hoyt" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > news:[email protected]
    >     ...
    > > Or underwhelming::
    > >
    > > 1) Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sterile)
    > > 2) Vienna (dull center, really; decrepit outside the Ring)
    > > 3) Berlin (has lost character & soul since the Wall fell)
    > > 4) Paris (big rambling French city with bad air)
    > > 5) London (overrun, uncomfortable, and expensive)
    > For me it was definitely Florence. Great museums, but as a city I found it
a
    > dump. Siena, Lucca, Pisa, Volterra are all much nicer.
    > Sjoerd

"Ryan B" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >For me it's Carcassonne, France. I arrived in town in the early evening; I
    >got to the bridge about a half mile away as the sun was setting and I looked
    >up at the ancient walled town and thought it was magnificent. I got inside
    >only to find it was a highly commercialized Disney type theme park. Just
    >one junk shop and ice cream stand after another.

That's the result of so many people travelling to such places. We want
to be fed, to have a drink, to find a place to sleep. Some among us
want ice cream, or postcards to send home, or a piece of local craft
work. So interesting destinations become commercialised. It's nobody's
fault; it's just the way life works.

PB

hamilton <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ham-
[email protected]...
    > Paris is still among the most beautiful big cities in the world -- in fact
    > I can't think of a city more beautiful. There are some LOCATIONS more
    > beautiful e.g. Vancouver comes to mind and San FRancisco --- but as a city
    > with an amazing amount of integrity, Paris is hard to beat.
I agree with the others. Just about my unfavourite. *Beautiful*? Good grief!

Surreyman

On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:53:31 +0100, "a.spencer3"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >hamilton <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:ha-
    >[email protected]    ...
    >> Paris is still among the most beautiful big cities in the world -- in fact
    >> I can't think of a city more beautiful. There are some LOCATIONS more
    >> beautiful e.g. Vancouver comes to mind and San FRancisco --- but as a city
    >> with an amazing amount of integrity, Paris is hard to beat.
    >I agree with the others. Just about my unfavourite. *Beautiful*? Good grief!

Name any big city you like, Surreyman. Then, we'll talk.

Michael