Mxsmanic wrote:


    > Because they cannot compete, like most Europeans. So they engage in
    > protectionism instead.

Tell it to the US steel industry :-)


-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

Le Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:25:06 +0200, John Stolz a écrit :

{ snip }

    >> I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that the French seem so
    >> terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
    >> different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
    >> usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
    >> jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that the French
    >> are so defensive?
    > A good point - if not, why do the French feel obliged to pass laws to defend
    > their 'culture'

Another myth. You are (I assume) referring to the Law of 4 August 1994
(94.665) on the 'protection of the French language'. Note that nowhere
does this law seek to 'impose' French language or culture over any other
language or culture. It simply reaffirms French as the language of the
Republic, and as a unifying force for the French people. Where a foreign
language is used, the French equivalent must be given. The Francophones
can read the full text of the law here ...

url:http://admi.net/cgi-bin/affiche_page.pl?lien=19940805/MCCX9400007L.html&requete-
=665#debut

{ snip }

    > large French retail chain that they are obliged by law to remove Engflish
    > language documentation from shrink wrapped software - why so defensive?

I _suspect_ that this is an urban myth. I bought a copy of 'Empire Earth'
two weeks ago, and whilst the instruction manual was in French, there were
were several items in English, including the 'system requirements' sticker
on the side of the box.

    > I don't have the impression that the Dutch (a much smaller country) feel so
    > threatened by the Anglo-Saxon hegemony. Dutch language culture seems to be
    > thriving, despite the fact that pretty much everyone speaks English and
    > watches theior US filme in English.

A friend informs me that a lot of courses in Dutch universities are now
taught in English. I, even as a native English speaker, consider this
an abomination, and a subjugation of Dutch culture to English (read
'American') culture. I certainly hope and pray that France does not go down
the same road. Not because of any airy-fairy 'anti-American' views, but
because I believe that a people's identity is closely tied to its language,
and to its culture. The world may be shrinking economically, but not all
of us think that globalisation is a 'Good Thing', and I hope that even fewer
of us want to see English imposed everywhere, simply because its most
powerful speaker, is also its richest.

--
Desmond Coughlan |****#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
http: // www . zeouane . org

Desmond Coughlan wrote:

    >A friend informs me that a lot of courses in Dutch universities are now
    >taught in English. I, even as a native English speaker, consider this
    >an abomination, and a subjugation of Dutch culture to English (read
    >'American') culture.
I suspect that this should be a case of "read 'English' ". I am told
by Dutch people that a major source of their English-language
competence is that they receive and watch a lot of British (read
'English') television.

Insofar as the accents and usages of Dutch people indicate from whom
they acquired their English, I hear more English influence than
American.

    > I certainly hope and pray that France does not go down
    > the same road. Not because of any airy-fairy 'anti-American' views, but
    > because I believe that a people's identity is closely tied to its language,
    > and to its culture. The world may be shrinking economically, but not all
    > of us think that globalisation is a 'Good Thing', and I hope that even fewer
    > of us want to see English imposed everywhere, simply because its most
    > powerful speaker, is also its richest.
I tend to agree with this, so long as it is not pushed to the point of
xenophobia.

PB

Desmond Coughlan wrote:

    >It was told to me by an American.

But don't you know that all Americans are liars?

PB

Tim Challenger wrote:
[ someone else wrote: ]

    > > The Dutch are much more successful in business. Germanic countries in
    > > general are more successful, in part no doubt because they are less prone
    > > to machismo, which cripples every country in which it exists.

    > Macho -> failure
    > Wimpiness = non-macho
    > therefore: Wimpiness->success
    > USA is successful := 'muricans are wimps ?

No, that doesn't work.

success -> wimpiness

does _not_ follow from

wimpiness -> success

But, additionally,

wimpiness -> success

also does not follow from

macho -> failure

(The first is a case of "assuming the consequent", and the second a
case of "denying the antecedent". Both of these are common logical
fallacies.)


However, if

macho -> failure

then it _does_ follow that

success -> non-macho (=wimpiness ?)

and therefore the conclusion still follows.


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?

In article ,
Desmond Coughlan wrote:

    > Le Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:31:01 GMT, Jim Morris a
    > écrit :
    > >> The French are 'jealous' of murder rates in some cities that are higher
    > >> than entire European nations. The French are 'jealous' of a medical
    > >> system which invented the 'wallet bypass', where you're thrown out on the
    > >> street after an accident, if the doctor can't find your medicare card.
    > > The
    > > Actually this is a false statement and one of those "Stereotypes" we are
    > > talking about.
    > > It is illegal in the US to be refused Emergency Medical Care for whatever
    > > reason
    > > whether you have insurance, medicare, no insurance, or no medicare.
    > It was told to me by an American.


Obviously some clueless git who had never had any actual experience with
this.

the American system of medical care is certainly flawed -- the fact that
many people who are low income workers don't have health insurance is
the biggest flaw. BUT it is simply not true that people are turned away
from emergency rooms without insurance -- the law is clear on that -- it
just doesn't happen.

In article ,
greg byshenk wrote:

    > Jenn wrote:
    > > I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that the French seem so
    > > terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
    > > different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
    > > usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
    > > jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that the French
    > > are so defensive?
    > I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that Americans seem so
    > terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
    > different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
    > usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
    > jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that Americans are
    > so defensive?

well aren't you adorable -- can you make the distinction between
responding when attacked from simply generalized unprovoked snotting?
There, I thought you could.

In article ,
"Tim Challenger" wrote:

    > > The Dutch are much more successful in business. Germanic countries in
    > > general are more successful, in part no doubt because they are less prone
    > to
    > > machismo, which cripples every country in which it exists.
    > Macho -> failure
    > Wimpiness = non-macho
    > therefore: Wimpiness->success
    > USA is successful := 'muricans are wimps ?
    > Tim

LOL but of course the flaw in your argument is the notion that the
opposite of macho is wimpy --- macho is actually a weakness sign, not a
sign of strength. Real men don't have to strut like insecure
schoolboys. Real men don't need to hate and put down women to feel like
real men. And of course there is some truth that the countries which
lag behind on almost every dimension are those with macho cultures which
discriminate against half their populations -- and thereby forego the
full contributions that half of their populations might provide.

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:46:50 +0000, Desmond Coughlan
wrote:

    >Le Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:31:01 GMT, Jim Morris a écrit :
    >>> The French are 'jealous' of murder rates in some cities that are higher
    >>> than entire European nations. The French are 'jealous' of a medical
    >>> system which invented the 'wallet bypass', where you're thrown out on the
    >>> street after an accident, if the doctor can't find your medicare card.
    >> The
    >> Actually this is a false statement and one of those "Stereotypes" we are
    >> talking about.
    >> It is illegal in the US to be refused Emergency Medical Care for whatever
    >> reason
    >> whether you have insurance, medicare, no insurance, or no medicare.
    >It was told to me by an American.

More accurately, a hospital cannot refuse you medical care for a
life-threatening emergency condition. Once your condition is
stabilized they can kick you out on your own.

But, ironically, that's if you're not poor. The poor can get health
care from the state.


************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******

[email protected] (Hatunen) wrote:

    >More accurately, a hospital cannot refuse you medical care for a
    >life-threatening emergency condition. Once your condition is
    >stabilized they can kick you out on your own.
    >But, ironically, that's if you're not poor. The poor can get health
    >care from the state.
If you're not poor, but do not have suitable insurance, then the
system impoverishes you. Then you qualify for free health care.

PB

Absolutely true. My sister is an ER (Casualty) nurse and she sees everybody and anybody without insurance for everything from a cold to real emergencies. In fact, the ER is deluged with non-emergency cases because they cannot be turned away.

Perhaps you should go back and read my post again. I feel my point was very clear. I'm truly not trying to be snotty or sarcastic here, so perhaps if you read it again, you'll see my point. If not, I'll be glad to clarify.

I have read this thread with much amusement and angst. how are AMericans
viewed in France, why ask? The fact that America is ooked at as some sort
of enfant terrible irresistaqble and detestable at the same time is really
irrelevant if one is asking as a prospective tourist, for one will find a
warm and gracious welcome, inviting you to indulge in all that France has
to offer and asking only for respect in return.

How are Americans viewed in France, ask a cynic and you will find "fools
with money" ask me, an Americna, and I will say with warmth and enthusiasm.
If you really want to know, go there and find out for your self, but be
warned people there will be like people whereever you are, if you are open
to them at home they will be open to you as a guest. . . .

Will wonders never cease? This is actually something you and I can agree on, Desmond!

BRAVA, Jenn!