how are Americans viewed in France?
Oct 23rd 2002 | 1:02 pm
#31
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 114
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
Originally posted by Desmond Coughlan:
Le Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:20:12 +0000, Stacy Shinsel a écrit :
> We are all hampered, no matter what our nationality, by learned
> stereotypes of other people and cultures. The snobby, xenophobic French;
> the war-mongering Hun; the lazy, but oh so charming, Italian; the stick
> up his butt Brit; and the crass, pompous, overbearing, ain't I wonderful
> American. These stereotypes are generally held by people with little
> education or foreign travel experience (or just plain stupid).
> Personally, I believe the more you know about the people of different
> countries, their history, culture, language, etc. the less the
> stereotypes endure. Travel is the best educator!
You forgot to mention a couple of points. Namely that the French all
smell of garlic, and wear striped T-shirts and berets, and have strings
of onions around their necks, as they ride bicycles up and down the
countryside. All Germans smell of sausage, drive Mercedes, and permanently
stick their right arms out of the sunroof in a Nazi salute, whilst crying,
'Ve haf vays of making you talk !!' Then there's the Italian whose hands
never stop moving, who eats pasta every day, and who cries 'Mamma Mia !!'
every five seconds. Not forgetting the Brit who wears a bowler hat, carries
an umbrella, and whose answer to every question is, 'I say !' Or the Scot
who's permanently drunk, wears a kilt and can't stop singing, 'Och Aye
Ra'Noo!' ... then there's the Irishman who lives on Guinness, and whose
first words when he wakes up, are 'Top o' the mornin' to you !!' ...
--
Desmond Coughlan |****#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
http: // www . zeouane . org
Le Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:20:12 +0000, Stacy Shinsel a écrit :
> We are all hampered, no matter what our nationality, by learned
> stereotypes of other people and cultures. The snobby, xenophobic French;
> the war-mongering Hun; the lazy, but oh so charming, Italian; the stick
> up his butt Brit; and the crass, pompous, overbearing, ain't I wonderful
> American. These stereotypes are generally held by people with little
> education or foreign travel experience (or just plain stupid).
> Personally, I believe the more you know about the people of different
> countries, their history, culture, language, etc. the less the
> stereotypes endure. Travel is the best educator!
You forgot to mention a couple of points. Namely that the French all
smell of garlic, and wear striped T-shirts and berets, and have strings
of onions around their necks, as they ride bicycles up and down the
countryside. All Germans smell of sausage, drive Mercedes, and permanently
stick their right arms out of the sunroof in a Nazi salute, whilst crying,
'Ve haf vays of making you talk !!' Then there's the Italian whose hands
never stop moving, who eats pasta every day, and who cries 'Mamma Mia !!'
every five seconds. Not forgetting the Brit who wears a bowler hat, carries
an umbrella, and whose answer to every question is, 'I say !' Or the Scot
who's permanently drunk, wears a kilt and can't stop singing, 'Och Aye
Ra'Noo!' ... then there's the Irishman who lives on Guinness, and whose
first words when he wakes up, are 'Top o' the mornin' to you !!' ...
--
Desmond Coughlan |****#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
http: // www . zeouane . org
....and your point is?
Oct 23rd 2002 | 1:43 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
>..and your point is?
Don't think he has one.
Don't think he has one.
Oct 23rd 2002 | 3:11 pm
#33
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Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
Desmond Coughlan wrote:
> But the five main points rarely vary. That the 'surrendering' jibe should
> come up so often is surprising, especially coming from a nation that has
> _never_ won a war on its own.
I don't recall seeing any of you potato-munchers in Grenada. The fate of the
free world hung in the balance, and the US bravely did what had to be done,
overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds, while the Europeans stood on
quivering in their sandals.
> That France should be called anti-Semitic, when maybe one or two Jews have
> been killed in France these past two years, compared to several hundred in
> Israel, is laughable.
Okay, fine, Israel is anti-Semitic.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
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> But the five main points rarely vary. That the 'surrendering' jibe should
> come up so often is surprising, especially coming from a nation that has
> _never_ won a war on its own.
I don't recall seeing any of you potato-munchers in Grenada. The fate of the
free world hung in the balance, and the US bravely did what had to be done,
overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds, while the Europeans stood on
quivering in their sandals.
> That France should be called anti-Semitic, when maybe one or two Jews have
> been killed in France these past two years, compared to several hundred in
> Israel, is laughable.
Okay, fine, Israel is anti-Semitic.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
Oct 23rd 2002 | 7:20 pm
#34
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Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
> I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that the French seem so
> terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
> different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
> usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
> jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that the French
> are so defensive?
I don't know if they are. I've not experienced it any more than other
nationalities.
Mention one thing that could vaguely be possibly be construed as not being
110% pro american or hinting that the US isn't the best place in the world
for everything, and everyone's going "we are wonderful, and you must be
grateful to us for bailing you out of seventeen world wars".
lol
Tim.
> terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
> different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
> usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
> jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that the French
> are so defensive?
I don't know if they are. I've not experienced it any more than other
nationalities.
Mention one thing that could vaguely be possibly be construed as not being
110% pro american or hinting that the US isn't the best place in the world
for everything, and everyone's going "we are wonderful, and you must be
grateful to us for bailing you out of seventeen world wars".
lol
Tim.
Oct 23rd 2002 | 7:23 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
Desmond Coughlan wrote:
[knip]
> Nor do I note any French people going onto US newsgroups, specifically
> to poke fun at the United States. Lord knows, we'd be spoilt for subject
> matter, if we did. However, I estimate that around 90% of the posts
> made to news:soc.culture.french, are by
> Americans, and their posts are
> divided more or less equally into:
[knip: stereotypes]
The soc.culture.* hierarchy is rendered useless, as it is degenerated
into a Jerry Springer like mud throwing fest of perceived cultural
stereotypes. Please don't let that happen to the other hierarchies.
Nils
[knip]
> Nor do I note any French people going onto US newsgroups, specifically
> to poke fun at the United States. Lord knows, we'd be spoilt for subject
> matter, if we did. However, I estimate that around 90% of the posts
> made to news:soc.culture.french, are by
> Americans, and their posts are
> divided more or less equally into:
[knip: stereotypes]
The soc.culture.* hierarchy is rendered useless, as it is degenerated
into a Jerry Springer like mud throwing fest of perceived cultural
stereotypes. Please don't let that happen to the other hierarchies.
Nils
Oct 23rd 2002 | 7:27 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
> ...and your point is?
And YOUR point is ?
And YOUR point is ?
Oct 23rd 2002 | 7:34 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
"> The soc.culture.* hierarchy is rendered useless, as it is degenerated
> into a Jerry Springer like mud throwing fest of perceived cultural
> stereotypes.
So the "soc" is what you use to get the starter infection, and the "culture"
bit refers to the bacteria and protozoans that grow in it.
I like it.
Tim.
> into a Jerry Springer like mud throwing fest of perceived cultural
> stereotypes.
So the "soc" is what you use to get the starter infection, and the "culture"
bit refers to the bacteria and protozoans that grow in it.
I like it.
Tim.
Oct 23rd 2002 | 8:25 pm
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
Jenn wrote in message
news:jenn-9549BB.15570523-
[email protected]...
> In article ,
> Desmond Coughlan wrote:
> > Le Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:33:07 +0200, Earl Evleth a
écrit
> > :
> >
> > >>> Do you really think the French are envious
> > >>> of our material success?
> >
> > >> Absolutely, although their Catholic tradition forbids them from
showing
> > >> this
> > >> unambiguously (in Roman Catholicism, one cannot be holy and rich at
the
> > >> same
> > >> time, unless one is a member of the clergy).
> >
> > *guffaw*
> >
> > Every now and then, I try to remember why mxsmanic is in my killfile.
Then
> > I read statement of _towering_ imbecility such as the above, and I
wonder
> > no more.
> >
> > The French are jealous of the Americans' material success, but cannot
> > show it, as, '... their Catholic tradition forbids them' ? Oh Jesus,
I'm
> > shaking in my chair with laughter.
> >
> > The French are 'jealous' of murder rates in some cities that are higher
> > than entire European nations. The French are 'jealous' of a medical
> > system which invented the 'wallet bypass', where you're thrown out on
the
> > street after an accident, if the doctor can't find your medicare card.
The
> > French are 'jealous' of workers who have to work over 80 hours a week,
and
> > sometimes take a second job, to pay off their debts. The French are
> > 'jealous' of workers who get a third week's paid holiday, after twenty
> > years in the same job.
> >
> > Really, I'm ROTFLMAO !!!! Jesus, someone get me a glass of water ...
> I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that the French seem so
> terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
> different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
> usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
> jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that the French
> are so defensive?
A good point - if not, why do the French feel obliged to pass laws to defend
their 'culture' and to work through the WTO to prevent access of US
entertainment industry to their market. I was told by the manager of a
large French retail chain that they are obliged by law to remove Engflish
language documentation from shrink wrapped software - why so defensive?
I don't have the impression that the Dutch (a much smaller country) feel so
threatened by the Anglo-Saxon hegemony. Dutch language culture seems to be
thriving, despite the fact that pretty much everyone speaks English and
watches theior US filme in English.
news:jenn-9549BB.15570523-
[email protected]...
> In article ,
> Desmond Coughlan wrote:
> > Le Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:33:07 +0200, Earl Evleth a
écrit
> > :
> >
> > >>> Do you really think the French are envious
> > >>> of our material success?
> >
> > >> Absolutely, although their Catholic tradition forbids them from
showing
> > >> this
> > >> unambiguously (in Roman Catholicism, one cannot be holy and rich at
the
> > >> same
> > >> time, unless one is a member of the clergy).
> >
> > *guffaw*
> >
> > Every now and then, I try to remember why mxsmanic is in my killfile.
Then
> > I read statement of _towering_ imbecility such as the above, and I
wonder
> > no more.
> >
> > The French are jealous of the Americans' material success, but cannot
> > show it, as, '... their Catholic tradition forbids them' ? Oh Jesus,
I'm
> > shaking in my chair with laughter.
> >
> > The French are 'jealous' of murder rates in some cities that are higher
> > than entire European nations. The French are 'jealous' of a medical
> > system which invented the 'wallet bypass', where you're thrown out on
the
> > street after an accident, if the doctor can't find your medicare card.
The
> > French are 'jealous' of workers who have to work over 80 hours a week,
and
> > sometimes take a second job, to pay off their debts. The French are
> > 'jealous' of workers who get a third week's paid holiday, after twenty
> > years in the same job.
> >
> > Really, I'm ROTFLMAO !!!! Jesus, someone get me a glass of water ...
> I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that the French seem so
> terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
> different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
> usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
> jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that the French
> are so defensive?
A good point - if not, why do the French feel obliged to pass laws to defend
their 'culture' and to work through the WTO to prevent access of US
entertainment industry to their market. I was told by the manager of a
large French retail chain that they are obliged by law to remove Engflish
language documentation from shrink wrapped software - why so defensive?
I don't have the impression that the Dutch (a much smaller country) feel so
threatened by the Anglo-Saxon hegemony. Dutch language culture seems to be
thriving, despite the fact that pretty much everyone speaks English and
watches theior US filme in English.
Oct 24th 2002 | 12:07 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
Jenn wrote:
> I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that the French seem so
> terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
> different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
> usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
> jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that the French
> are so defensive?
I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that Americans seem so
terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that Americans are
so defensive?
--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?
> I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that the French seem so
> terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
> different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
> usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
> jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that the French
> are so defensive?
I agree that the post is silly -- but WHY is it that Americans seem so
terribly insecure that they must be snotty towards anyone or any culture
different than themselves? It is something of a national habit. The
usual interpretation of that kind of highly defensive behavior is that
jealousy is involved -- if not that -- then why is it that Americans are
so defensive?
--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?
Oct 24th 2002 | 12:31 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
> The French are 'jealous' of murder rates in some cities that are higher
> than entire European nations. The French are 'jealous' of a medical
> system which invented the 'wallet bypass', where you're thrown out on the
> street after an accident, if the doctor can't find your medicare card.
The
Actually this is a false statement and one of those "Stereotypes" we are
talking about.
It is illegal in the US to be refused Emergency Medical Care for whatever
reason
whether you have insurance, medicare, no insurance, or no medicare.
> than entire European nations. The French are 'jealous' of a medical
> system which invented the 'wallet bypass', where you're thrown out on the
> street after an accident, if the doctor can't find your medicare card.
The
Actually this is a false statement and one of those "Stereotypes" we are
talking about.
It is illegal in the US to be refused Emergency Medical Care for whatever
reason
whether you have insurance, medicare, no insurance, or no medicare.
Oct 24th 2002 | 1:04 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
"Desmond Coughlan" a écrit dans le message
de news: [email protected] ...
> Nor do I note any French people going onto
> US newsgroups, specifically to poke fun at
> the United States.
I hardly note any French people on newsgroups, period. They are twenty
years behind the times with respect to cyberspace, and most of them are
probably still playing around on the Minitel rose. (No, I'm not joking.)
> So you'll forgive me my lack of patience with
> such morons.
Why not just cultivate greater patience?
de news: [email protected] ...
> Nor do I note any French people going onto
> US newsgroups, specifically to poke fun at
> the United States.
I hardly note any French people on newsgroups, period. They are twenty
years behind the times with respect to cyberspace, and most of them are
probably still playing around on the Minitel rose. (No, I'm not joking.)
> So you'll forgive me my lack of patience with
> such morons.
Why not just cultivate greater patience?
Oct 24th 2002 | 1:07 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
"John Stolz" a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> ... if not, why do the French feel obliged to pass
> laws to defend their 'culture' and to work through
> the WTO to prevent access of US entertainment
> industry to their market.
Because they cannot compete, like most Europeans. So they engage in
protectionism instead.
> I was told by the manager of a large French retail
> chain that they are obliged by law to remove Engflish
> language documentation from shrink wrapped software ...
Not true. Products must include instructions in French (in theory), but
there is no obligation to remove existing instructions in English.
> I don't have the impression that the Dutch (a
> much smaller country) feel so threatened by the
> Anglo-Saxon hegemony.
The Dutch are much more successful in business. Germanic countries in
general are more successful, in part no doubt because they are less prone to
machismo, which cripples every country in which it exists.
news: [email protected]...
> ... if not, why do the French feel obliged to pass
> laws to defend their 'culture' and to work through
> the WTO to prevent access of US entertainment
> industry to their market.
Because they cannot compete, like most Europeans. So they engage in
protectionism instead.
> I was told by the manager of a large French retail
> chain that they are obliged by law to remove Engflish
> language documentation from shrink wrapped software ...
Not true. Products must include instructions in French (in theory), but
there is no obligation to remove existing instructions in English.
> I don't have the impression that the Dutch (a
> much smaller country) feel so threatened by the
> Anglo-Saxon hegemony.
The Dutch are much more successful in business. Germanic countries in
general are more successful, in part no doubt because they are less prone to
machismo, which cripples every country in which it exists.
Oct 24th 2002 | 1:44 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
> The Dutch are much more successful in business. Germanic countries in
> general are more successful, in part no doubt because they are less prone
to
> machismo, which cripples every country in which it exists.
Macho -> failure
Wimpiness = non-macho
therefore: Wimpiness->success
USA is successful := 'muricans are wimps ?
Tim
> general are more successful, in part no doubt because they are less prone
to
> machismo, which cripples every country in which it exists.
Macho -> failure
Wimpiness = non-macho
therefore: Wimpiness->success
USA is successful := 'muricans are wimps ?
Tim
Oct 24th 2002 | 2:46 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
Le Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:23:47 +0200, Nils Zonneveld a écrit :
>> Nor do I note any French people going onto US newsgroups, specifically
>> to poke fun at the United States. Lord knows, we'd be spoilt for subject
>> matter, if we did. However, I estimate that around 90% of the posts
>> made to news:soc.culture.french, are by
>> Americans, and their posts are
>> divided more or less equally into:
> The soc.culture.* hierarchy is rendered useless, as it is degenerated
> into a Jerry Springer like mud throwing fest of perceived cultural
> stereotypes. Please don't let that happen to the other hierarchies.
I agree, and you will note (do I have to repeat it ?) that none of this
'Frog bashing' was started by me.
--
Desmond Coughlan |****#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
http: // www . zeouane . org
>> Nor do I note any French people going onto US newsgroups, specifically
>> to poke fun at the United States. Lord knows, we'd be spoilt for subject
>> matter, if we did. However, I estimate that around 90% of the posts
>> made to news:soc.culture.french, are by
>> Americans, and their posts are
>> divided more or less equally into:
> The soc.culture.* hierarchy is rendered useless, as it is degenerated
> into a Jerry Springer like mud throwing fest of perceived cultural
> stereotypes. Please don't let that happen to the other hierarchies.
I agree, and you will note (do I have to repeat it ?) that none of this
'Frog bashing' was started by me.
--
Desmond Coughlan |****#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
http: // www . zeouane . org
Oct 24th 2002 | 2:46 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: how are Americans viewed in France?
Le Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:31:01 GMT, Jim Morris a écrit :
>> The French are 'jealous' of murder rates in some cities that are higher
>> than entire European nations. The French are 'jealous' of a medical
>> system which invented the 'wallet bypass', where you're thrown out on the
>> street after an accident, if the doctor can't find your medicare card.
> The
> Actually this is a false statement and one of those "Stereotypes" we are
> talking about.
> It is illegal in the US to be refused Emergency Medical Care for whatever
> reason
> whether you have insurance, medicare, no insurance, or no medicare.
It was told to me by an American.
--
Desmond Coughlan |****#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
http: // www . zeouane . org
>> The French are 'jealous' of murder rates in some cities that are higher
>> than entire European nations. The French are 'jealous' of a medical
>> system which invented the 'wallet bypass', where you're thrown out on the
>> street after an accident, if the doctor can't find your medicare card.
> The
> Actually this is a false statement and one of those "Stereotypes" we are
> talking about.
> It is illegal in the US to be refused Emergency Medical Care for whatever
> reason
> whether you have insurance, medicare, no insurance, or no medicare.
It was told to me by an American.
--
Desmond Coughlan |****#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
http: // www . zeouane . org
